Cardiovascular risk of energy drinks: Caffeine and taurine facilitate ventricular arrhythmias in a sensitive whole-heart model

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Fun read on isolated effects of caffeine and taurine on Arrythmia in rabbit hearts. Notice the local minimum on VT/VF frequency with taurine dosing. For those taking multiple grams per day of taurine while on AAS cycle to potentially ameliorate adverse effects...nota bene and be careful.
 
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BigTex

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Thanks for putting this up! I have a section on my Introduction to Physical Fitness & Wellness classes where I discuss energy drinks. The age kids I teach drink these things like sodas. I will definitely use this material.
 
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Thanks for putting this up! I have a section on my Introduction to Physical Fitness & Wellness classes where I discuss energy drinks. The age kids I teach drink these things like sodas. I will definitely use this material.
Sure. When you consider additional interaction with AAS effects my curiosity has me wondering if you are doing more harm than good combining high dose oral taurine with AAS use. I am going back to critically examine everything I was taking at the time of my AFIB incident. My records indicate 2-3 grams daily on top of the other stuff I was using.

Experiments are fun until you mess up.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
In the BB world taurine is commonly used to counteract the cramps some get using clenbuterol. It is said clenbuterol depletes taurine in the body leading to cramps, usually potrassiumis added. The taurine dose is about 3-5g. I guess what is happening is as others make mistakes we are learning from those mistakes in science. I have never messed with clenbuterol but have used albuterol a few times. Never used taurine either, nor energy drinks. That is all I need to do is make my blood pressure higher.

Hey, I had a-fib again almost two weeks ago. I noticed a high heart rate early in the morning. I had already purchased one of those 6 lead mobil EKG readers. So I actually got the a-fib on paper. It completely was gone the next morning. No problem since then. I did send my cardiologist the graph.


 
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FunkOdyssey

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Fun read on isolated effects of caffeine and taurine on AFIB in rabbit hearts. Notice the local minimum on VT/VF frequency with taurine dosing. For those taking multiple grams per day of taurine while on AAS cycle to potentially ameliorate adverse effects...nota bene and be careful.
Good find. There's no such thing as a perfectly innocuous and benign supplement to throw into a stack because it's "good for the liver" or "good for the heart" or whatever the reasoning may be. I've learned that if you think it can't hurt you, you just haven't looked into it deeply enough yet.
 

Guided_by_Voices

Well-Known Member
Energy drinks are well-known to spike cortisol levels as well, so in humans this would need to be accounted for and is likely counter-productive.

As always, instead of applying a band-aid, in this case in the form of "energy drinks", fixing the underlying problem should always be priority one. Ari Whitten's Eat for Energy and Paul Jaminet's Perfect Health Diet are two good book sources for general energy info. In addition most people (me included) would benefit from devoting more energy to building their aerobic base which will also have an energy benefit.
 
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BigTex

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Direct from my teaching PowerPoint: "In 2016, over 20,000 trips to the emergency room were associated with energy drink abuse." Some people don't understand the word moderation.

Again, the problem is abuse. There is a direct benefit to using caffeine before training. However, this means is using it BEFORE you train. Energy drinks are not to be substituted for sodas and consumed all day long.

When I competed in powerlifting I started off the meet with a large cup of coffee and a Pseudoephedrine (Sine-off). Never depended on this to train. Now I always have an 8oz cuban coffee (colada) before I go to the gym. I don't drink any caffeine at any other time of the day. No sodas and no tea.
 

gallant

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Are we sure that taurine is harmful? Did they isolate the taurine? I though the taurine was added to possibly counteract the harmful affects of the stimulant.
 
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In the BB world taurine is commonly used to counteract the cramps some get using clenbuterol. It is said clenbuterol depletes taurine in the body leading to cramps, usually potrassiumis added. The taurine dose is about 3-5g. I guess what is happening is as others make mistakes we are learning from those mistakes in science. I have never messed with clenbuterol but have used albuterol a few times. Never used taurine either, nor energy drinks. That is all I need to do is make my blood pressure higher.

Hey, I had a-fib again almost two weeks ago. I noticed a high heart rate early in the morning. I had already purchased one of those 6 lead mobil EKG readers. So I actually got the a-fib on paper. It completely was gone the next morning. No problem since then. I did send my cardiologist the graph.


So you caught the afib on your Kardia? Glad it went away quickly. Thanks for your reply. Good point on the cramps. Amazing how we all respond differently with the dose response. I look forward to hearing about your Hct reduction with your dose reduction. Great job looking out BigTex. I am back up to 100 mg/week TC/TP blend. Anxiety is still high but fortunately haven't had any measured arrythmia lately. The anxiety is a pain. My HRR used to be 40 to 50 bpm after 2 min and now my HRR is sometimes 0 to negative 5 to 10 bpm. Cardiologist thinks it is anxiety and everyone wants to put you on SSRIs (Lexapro/Mirtazipine, etc.).


Have a nice weekend.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Methods
"Briefly, 25 hearts of female New Zealand White rabbits were explanted and mounted to the Langendorff apparatus."

Can what happens in a rabbits heart be dublicated in a human heart?

"Several cases of sudden death after ingestion of high amounts of energy drinks have been reported.2 However, the sole intoxication with caffeine does not satisfactorily explain those hazardous events since energy drinks contain 80–200 mg caffeine per serving and the lethal dose is estimated to be around 5–10 g."

"Energy drinks usually contain a mixture of different ingredients such as caffeine, taurine, ginseng, or guarana. Therefore, the administration of caffeine or taurine in isolation is just the first step to better understand the electrophysiologic impact of energy drink consumption."
.
This study is definitely not definitive proof that taurine combined with caffeine is the cause of A-fib and death however, it is enough evidence to warrent further investigation. We know there are lots of emergency room visits each year because of the abuse of energy drinks so my advice is to be very careful using them and watch for any negative effects on the cardiac system.




 
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Are we sure that taurine is harmful? Did they isolate the taurine? I though the taurine was added to possibly counteract the harmful affects of the stimulant.
I was interested in the first article above from a taurine perspective although the energy drink angle is interesting for many.

Yes the taurine and caffeine were studied independently to determine dose response effect on arrythmia with rabbit hearts.
 
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Methods
"Briefly, 25 hearts of female New Zealand White rabbits were explanted and mounted to the Langendorff apparatus."

Can what happens in a rabbits heart be dublicated in a human heart?

"Several cases of sudden death after ingestion of high amounts of energy drinks have been reported.2 However, the sole intoxication with caffeine does not satisfactorily explain those hazardous events since energy drinks contain 80–200 mg caffeine per serving and the lethal dose is estimated to be around 5–10 g."

"Energy drinks usually contain a mixture of different ingredients such as caffeine, taurine, ginseng, or guarana. Therefore, the administration of caffeine or taurine in isolation is just the first step to better understand the electrophysiologic impact of energy drink consumption."
.
This study is definitely not definitive proof that taurine combined with caffeine is the cause of A-fib and death however, it is enough evidence to warrent further investigation. We know there are lots of emergency room visits each year because of the abuse of energy drinks so my advice is to be very careful using them and watch for any negative effects on the cardiac system.




Never had issues with ECA stacks (ripped fuel, thermadrene) long ago but there was a product called herbal ecstasy that really did a number on a few people I knew. Who knows what was in some of this stuff including Ultimate Orange. As you get older I like your advice to leave the stims alone.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
So you caught the afib on your Kardia? Glad it went away quickly. Thanks for your reply. Good point on the cramps. Amazing how we all respond differently with the dose response. I look forward to hearing about your Hct reduction with your dose reduction. Great job looking out BigTex. I am back up to 100 mg/week TC/TP blend. Anxiety is still high but fortunately haven't had any measured arrythmia lately. The anxiety is a pain. My HRR used to be 40 to 50 bpm after 2 min and now my HRR is sometimes 0 to negative 5 to 10 bpm. Cardiologist thinks it is anxiety and everyone wants to put you on SSRIs (Lexapro/Mirtazipine, etc.).


Have a nice weekend.
Yea, I am impressed with the Kardia. I got no response from my cardiologist until over a week later and he called and wanted me to wear a monitor. I said NO. The A-fib is gone and you just did an ECHO. The monitor is just going to detect a normal HR.

I hope my HCT is down. I think I have been too impatient. Two blood dumps and I have lowered my dose from 100mg every 10 days to 80 mg ever 10 day. I am going to wait 3 months to get tested again. These cardiologists just love to test, especially when they know insurance is paying for it. Right now I am consentrating on solving this osteoarthritis pain.

WOW, that is a very low HR. Hope you get that worked out. I had a exercise physiology professor show me his resting HR and it was in the 30's. He was an avid marathon runner.

Hope your weekend goes well too. Fall classes start for me Monday, I have a 7am and 8am class back to back. I have to get up around 4:45am to make it. I retired to avoid getting up this early.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Never had issues with ECA stacks (ripped fuel, thermadrene) long ago but there was a product called herbal ecstasy that really did a number on a few people I knew. Who knows what was in some of this stuff including Ultimate Orange. As you get older I like your advice to leave the stims alone.
If you remember, that too got abused badly so now it is almost impossible to find ephedrine. Yea, I stay away from the stimulants too. They all jack your blood pressure up.
 
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