Can oxandrolone cause a reduction in total test levels reported on a blood test while on TRT?

[SteveCleves]

My TRT protocol is 140mg cyp a week divided into every 3 day injections. This puts me at 950-1000 ng/dl. I get quarterly blood tests. I have been in this range for a few years.

Over the past year I have experimented with Oxandrolone 10mg per day. Something odd is happening. When on the oxandrolone, my SHBG goes down, free test goes up, as I would expect. But oddly enough, my total test goes down as well. This pattern repeated itself for all 4 blood tests.

January No Ox - Test 992
April Ox - Test 660
August No Ox - Test 956
December Ox - Test 656

Tests were taken at the same time in the cycle, on injection day before injecting.

The only difference in protocols is the 10mg of daily Ox.

This doesn't make any sense to me...what am I missing here?

 

[tareload]

Glad you asked...great question.

Who's currently on T propionate?

The support is appreciated. Nonetheless, the goal here is to improve our knowledge. That can only occur when new ideas face close scrutiny and survive informed criticism. @DS3 was on point to bring up the subject of direct metabolism of bound testosterone. But his other comments are mainly vague...

www.excelmale.com

Test levels way down on same dose

i was on 175 mg test once a week. On trough day a few months ago I was measured and my total t was 901 with an Estradiol sensitive of 24.5. I was then tested a few months later and my total t reading went way down on the same dose to 429 total t and 18.7 on the Estradiol sensitive test! My dr...

www.excelmale.com

Nandrolone Experiences

studies agree with me. So no I won't speak for myself lol, I seldom do when i make a claim it's what data say. But yeah high dose test will blow you up like a water buffalo. I like my gains lean, my prostate small, and my hair juvenile! Couldn't care less about strength gains, I don't need to...

www.excelmale.com

What external factors affect levels while on trt?

I have bloodwork coming up, and I want to confirm something. As far as I understand, nothing should affect my total. Sleep, sex, exercise, etc. should not come into play. I just want to confirm that, because I still come across a post here and there where someone will point to one of these...

www.excelmale.com

What external factors affect levels while on trt?

I have bloodwork coming up, and I want to confirm something. As far as I understand, nothing should affect my total. Sleep, sex, exercise, etc. should not come into play. I just want to confirm that, because I still come across a post here and there where someone will point to one of these...

www.excelmale.com

 

[tareload]

With accurate fT assay (equilibrium dialysis), your free T should stay constant.

SHBG lowered with OX so TT will also drop on accurate test (LCMS).

For same dose of Test upon adding the oxandrolone...only way your fT can drop at testing time point is if OX affects your metabolic clearance of the fT. Not my experience. Drop in TT can be explained by drop in SHBG which OX strongly affects. See links above... @Cataceous has been thought leader in this area:

What external factors affect levels while on trt?

I have bloodwork coming up, and I want to confirm something. As far as I understand, nothing should affect my total. Sleep, sex, exercise, etc. should not come into play. I just want to confirm that, because I still come across a post here and there where someone will point to one of these...

www.excelmale.com

Hence, think of it as

TT = f(fT, SHBG)

NOT

fT = f(TT, SHBG)

 

[tareload]

Naturally High Test & Estradiol, Still Feel Awful

Thanks for clarifying the ranges and units. Good job getting decent fT test through Quest (equiibrium dialysis). More mythology IMO. Intelligent opinion and clinical data indicate HPTA controls free testosterone (fT) not total testosterone (TT) and SHBG+fT yields TT. Hence, if you waved a...

forums.t-nation.com

SHBG Upregulation

May be of interest. See plot linked therein. Big difference between endogenous T production with an intact HPTGA vs using exogenous T where one uncouples negative feedback loop between T/E2 and hypothalamus/pituitary. With endogenous T production there is typically strong correlation between...

forums.t-nation.com

Also usually misunderstood…your T dose sets your free T level and then SHBG sets your Total T. That is fT level set by mass action (how much T you inject) then SHBG binds some fT to TT by dynamic equilibrium (storage). At steady state for same injection amount per unit time, the amount of fT leaving body is proportional to amount entering body. At steady state there is no accumulation hence SHBG can’t change fT level for a constant T dosage per unit time (only the storage amount). Also ignoring downstream conversion, E2, etc.

You can try this experiment yourself by keeping your TRT dose constant and drop SHBG with another medication like oxandrolone/etc. Now compare your pre and post TT/ fT levels using accurate TT/fT methods.

I’d argue (if SHBG does play a role) that more realistically the honeymoon period fades for many due to T/AAS abuse which erodes SHBG over time (there’s probably a bunch of factors in the erosion of that honeymoon phase). You don’t see SHBG increase over time with with exogenous T use. We still don’t understand the full roles of fT/TT and relative impacts which are coupled with SHBG.

 

[SteveCleves]

"You can try this experiment yourself by keeping your TRT dose constant and drop SHBG with another medication like oxandrolone/etc. Now compare your pre and post TT/ fT levels using accurate TT/fT methods."

Well, experiment done lol

Thanks readalot, supremely helpful as always!

 

[tareload]

"You can try this experiment yourself by keeping your TRT dose constant and drop SHBG with another medication like oxandrolone/etc. Now compare your pre and post TT/ fT levels using accurate TT/fT methods."

Well, experiment done lol

Thanks readalot, supremely helpful as always!

Sure thing. I understand few get this but I was really dissapointed in Andrew and Peter Attia. These are not dumb guys. Good thing we have @Cataceous here.

What external factors affect levels while on trt?

I have bloodwork coming up, and I want to confirm something. As far as I understand, nothing should affect my total. Sleep, sex, exercise, etc. should not come into play. I just want to confirm that, because I still come across a post here and there where someone will point to one of these...

www.excelmale.com

Thumbs down.

 

[tareload]

Does TRT reverse/improve sexual symptoms for most men with High Range SHBG / Lower Free T?

The more I read about the situation of the healthy active person with normal labs and normal Total T, but higher range SHBG and lower Free T, it seems the only real solution that fixes the numbers is TRT. For all the other solutions that supposedly help (boron, nettle, more carbs, etc), the...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Always get the LC/MS testosterone test even if it is more expensive (especially if you are using nandrolone or oxandrolone)

 

[tareload]

Always get the LC/MS testosterone test even if it is more expensive (especially if you are using nandrolone or oxandrolone)

Thanks to you they ain't expensive! Unreal prices at Discounted Labs!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks to you they ain't expensive! Unreal prices at Discounted Labs!

Thank you. I hardly make any margin on this test, to be honest. But testosterone and ultrasensitive estradiol are the two main tests that help people choose Discounted Labs over my larger competitors.

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[tareload]

Thank you. I hardly make any margin on this test, to be honest. But testosterone and ultrasensitive estradiol are the two main tests that help people choose Discounted Labs over my larger competitors.

Testosterone Testing Near Me

Looking for testosterone testing near me? Discover reliable and convenient testosterone testing services at Discounted Labs. Labs near you: No doctor visit is required. Lowest prices.

www.discountedlabs.com

I can tell. Let me send you a contribution for missed margin. You rock Brother Nelson!!

Testosterone, Free (Dialysis) and Total, MS

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This price is nuts. Then add the EM discount...just does not compute. You are one of the Good Guys.

 

[SteveCleves]

Sure thing. I understand few get this but I was really dissapointed in Andrew and Peter Attia. These are not dumb guys. Good thing we have @Cataceous here.

I know. I have been trying to expunge bro-science from my mind. Hearing Attia, whom I love, say it reinforced what I thought wasn't bro-science.