Bloods off AI

[Mcgiver54]

I stopped my AI 3 months ago. This is on 160mg a week, every 3.5 days, with 500u of HCG on the same injection days, I have always been over 1200. I want to bring my levels down a bit and see how I feel, I lowered dose to 120mg a week with the 1000u of HCG.
E at 45 seems low for no AI, Free T seems way high, DHT is right where the Ratio chart states for total T of 1300, it looks to me like the Quest E test is different than the Labcorp. I am one of the guys that the ultra sensitive and regular E tests are very close. What do you guys think of the free T level?

 

[MarcoFL]

Hello MCG, can you tell the group how you were feeling before and how you are now? more color on before and after helps everyone to learn

 

[Mcgiver54]

Mark, Fatigue and not feeling right led me to TRT, I was in the 300s so I started TRT in September last year, First dose was 200mg a week with 1mg of anastrozole infused and the 500u HCG twice a week, energy and libido were night and day in the beginning, after 2 months I experienced ED for the first time ever and found my Estradiol at 16, my AI was lowered to .5mg with 160mg T but the ED persisted, I stopped the AI altogether and started .5mg of cialis daily, ED was corrected and I switched to 3.5 day injection interval to try to control E without the AI. My SHBG is 29. I feel good but am interested if I will feel better with a slightly lower level.

 

[madman]

I stopped my AI 3 months ago. This is on 160mg a week, every 3.5 days, with 500u of HCG on the same injection days, I have always been over 1200. I want to bring my levels down a bit and see how I feel, I lowered dose to 120mg a week with the 1000u of HCG.
E at 45 seems low for no AI, Free T seems way high, DHT is right where the Ratio chart states for total T of 1300, it looks to me like the Quest E test is different than the Labcorp. I am one of the guys that the ultra sensitive and regular E tests are very close. What do you guys think of the free T level?View attachment 9874View attachment 9875

If you feel good overall running these levels and blood markers are in a healthy range I would just leave it be.

Just keep in mind that your peak TT/FT/e2 will be even higher.

Where does your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit sit?


I feel good but am interested if I will feel better with a slightly lower level.

Unless you were struggling with such protocol or feel there may be room for improvement than you easily have room to lower your dose slightly.

 

[Mcgiver54]

Madman, Hemocrit was creeping up to 50 so I started giving blood every two months as a preventive measure. It was 47.1 last time I tested it.
RBC was 4.80 Hemoglobin 16.2.
I always draw the blood on injection day, and skip the injection until after I draw. It is also an afternoon test, I cant usually get there in the morning. Thanks.

 

[Vince]

I stopped my AI 3 months ago. This is on 160mg a week, every 3.5 days, with 500u of HCG on the same injection days, I have always been over 1200. I want to bring my levels down a bit and see how I feel, I lowered dose to 120mg a week with the 1000u of HCG.
E at 45 seems low for no AI, Free T seems way high, DHT is right where the Ratio chart states for total T of 1300, it looks to me like the Quest E test is different than the Labcorp. I am one of the guys that the ultra sensitive and regular E tests are very close. What do you guys think of the free T level?View attachment 9874View attachment 9875

Your estradiol levels look good to me. You may want to consider lowing your testosterone dose even more. I believe most men feel better with a lower dose. Also lower dose should help stabilize your HCT.

 

[madman]

Madman, Hemocrit was creeping up to 50 so I started giving blood every two months as a preventive measure. It was 47.1 last time I tested it.
RBC was 4.80 Hemoglobin 16.2.
I always draw the blood on injection day, and skip the injection until after I draw. It is also an afternoon test, I cant usually get there in the morning. Thanks.

If you are struggling to control your HCT on your current protocol then lowering your dose slightly will improve your blood markers and you could very well end up feeling better overall as you easily have room seeing as your FT is double the top end of the range and that is at the trough.

Keep in mind that if you are donating too frequently you will just end up crashing your ferritin/iron which can lead to a host of other issues.

Seeing as you have been donating way too frequently (every 2 months) than you most likely have crashed your ferritin.

Have a full iron panel done next time you get blood work.

Do what you feel is best for you.

I applaud you for using an accurate method to test your free testosterone.

Too many men on trt are relying on inaccurate methods and have no clue where their FT level truly sits on such protocol.

 

[Mcgiver54]

Thanks, meant to add I take an iron supplement for 2 weeks after I donate, I do plan on getting a ferritin test just to get a baseline.
I appreciate all the great advice I get here, almost all of my knowledge has been gained by reading the wealth of material on here.
Two other things I forgot to mention, Royal insists on adding DHEA to test that doesn't have an AI infused and they now add B12 to their HCG, it makes it a red color. So I am getting lots of B12 and DHEA.
Vince, thanks a million for recommending the easy touch 27g syringes from the easy touch store, they are all I use now.
I lowered my dose to .3ml which should be 60mg for 120mg a week from 160, I will see where I fall out in 8 weeks.

 

[Mcgiver54]

Update with new labs, I did not feel quite as good on the lower dose so I raised it to 140mg per week. I also did the comparison between senstive and normal Estradiol, mine is very close. Ferritin is on the low side so I continue my daily iron supplement. I waited 90 days to give blood vice 60.
This was 120mg and 1000iu HCG per week, I add 5mg cialis, my PSA continue to slowly increase from below 1.0 before TRT.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Two other things I forgot to mention, Royal insists on adding DHEA to test that doesn't have an AI infused and they now add B12 to their HCG, it makes it a red color. So I am getting lots of B12 and DHEA.

Are you saying they add DHEA and B12 to the T and HCG vials/injections? If so, Royal is outta their minds! B12 probably won't hurt, but if you don't respond well to DHEA you're screwed until you can get a vial of plain ol' T, and toss the mix. I've heard of guys getting T mixed with anastrozole as well... seriously messed up! One guy may need some AI and it works fine, but another will crash from it, and there's no way to adjust or eliminate AI from the mix. I was originally started on T cream with compounded AI... BAD!!! It F%^ked me up royally!


BTW, lowering dose can be Hell. You say you don't feel better at the lower dose. How long have you ridden it out? I had to lower because of HCT and low ferritin and could not donate. I ended up at a much lower dose than expected after the Hell of multiple reductions, but it took closer to 12 weeks after each reduction to really stabilize. I still felt sub par after 8 weeks.

I think it's a good idea to not bump all the way back to 160/wk. Personally, I'd ride out the lower dose for 12 weeks then bump 10% if needed. YMMV

 

[madman]

Update with new labs, I did not feel quite as good on the lower dose so I raised it to 140mg per week. I also did the comparison between senstive and normal Estradiol, mine is very close. Ferritin is on the low side so I continue my daily iron supplement. I waited 90 days to give blood vice 60.
This was 120mg and 1000iu HCG per week, I add 5mg cialis, my PSA continue to slowly increase from below 1.0 before TRT.
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I would have definitely given it a little longer on the previous lower dosed protocol 120 mg/week (60 mg every 3.5 days) as it has only been 10 weeks since you lowered your dose and as you should know that your levels will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until they stabilize (roughly 6 weeks) and it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt to the new levels as this is the time when you should truly gauge how you feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms/well-being.

You basically only gave it a month after levels stabilized which is too early to jump the gun.

Even then on the previous protocol 160 mg/week (80 mg every 3.5 days), you were hitting a TT 1300 ng/dL at the trough and now on the most recent protocol 120 mg/week (60 mg every 3.5 days) you are still almost hitting a TT 1000 ng/dL at the trough but more importantly, when looking at your FT on the previous protocol it was very high and now on the most recent protocol, it is much lower which would seem odd going from a TT 1300-1000 ng/dL to have such as drastic change.

The S**T KICKER here is we are comparing 2 different assays for TT/FT let alone reference ranges as on the 1st set of labs you did the right thing and tested using the most accurate testing methods for TT (LC/MS-MS) and FT (gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis) than you went and messed it up by using the TT (ECLIA immunoassay) and worse off the calculated method for FT.

So you have no idea where your FT truly sits and I bet if you had it tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis it would be higher.

If you are content with only giving a new protocol 1 month after levels have stabilized than so be it and increase your dose slightly as you have done.

Personally I would have given it more time and definitely tested both sets of labs using the same assays (most accurate).

 

[Mcgiver54]

Madman, thanks, I did not notice the difference in tests, in the future I will be more careful, I thought 10 weeks would be enough time to feel the results. Any concerns with the DHT? I am already bald so I wont notice that.
Blackhawk, yes they add DHEA to the test, DHEA dose is 10mg per 1 ML in 200mg test, I was told if the take out the infused AI which I requested, they add DHEA. The B12 is in the HCG.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

DHEA dose is 10mg per 1 ML in 200mg test, I was told if the take out the infused AI which I requested, they add DHEA. The B12 is in the HCG.

Hmm, 10mg DHEA in 200mg test is a token amount, not very useful at a therapuetic level, though I don't know thw effect of injected vs oral DHEA.

So they won't provide T cyp or enanthate straight up without additives? Something strange going on here.

YMMV but I'd move on and find a different supplier who does not require mixing in non needed additives.

 

[Vince]

Update with new labs, I did not feel quite as good on the lower dose so I raised it to 140mg per week. I also did the comparison between senstive and normal Estradiol, mine is very close. Ferritin is on the low side so I continue my daily iron supplement. I waited 90 days to give blood vice 60.
This was 120mg and 1000iu HCG per week, I add 5mg cialis, my PSA continue to slowly increase from below 1.0 before TRT.
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HCT at 46, I wouldn’t even think of donating blood