1. #1

    Permamently crashed E2 due to Arimidex... I feel miserable

    Hello everbody,
    to make a long story short, I ended up on TRT because I abused steroids in the past and never fully recovered. My final protocol asked for 50mg Test E twice weekly which got my TT up to ~650ng (2 days after injection) and my E2 came back @ 40pg. My doc put me on Arimidex 0.5mg with every Test shot. After about one month I started to feel like crap and still do until today (began taking Arimidex in autumn 2017). My E2 was <5pg and we stoppped the AI. 2 months later we tested again and E2 was 10pg. We upped the dose to 150mg/week and my E2 didn't change. We attribute all of my symptoms to hypoestrogenism: joint pain, stiff neck, extremely fatigued, feeling weak, dry eyes, frequent urination, I lost 15kg (~30lbs) in 8 months due to the inability to work out (I almost faint doing squats, get dizzy, run out of breath easily), tachycardia, heart palpitations, headaches, bloated belly, no morning wood since then, getting angry really fast. I'm at loss and I never felt so desperate in my life
    So far we ruled out MI, embolism, stress test ended at 175W (pulse was >190bpm, RR 210/100), ALT/AST are normal.
    Thanks in advance, guys


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  3. #2
    any current E2 labs?

  4. #3
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    Latest labs from 3 weeks ago showed E2 @ 12pg and TT 700ng. All E2 tests are non-sensitive.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dimebag View Post
    Latest labs from 3 weeks ago showed E2 @ 12pg and TT 700ng. All E2 tests are non-sensitive.
    Are you taking any other medications or herbs/supplements?

    I know it is difficult but you may want to get a sensitive test. Have you and your provider talked about raising your T even more to stimulate conversion to estrogen?

    700ng/dL is high to some providers and mid range to others. Depends on your provider and their own view - unfortunately they call the shots no pun intended.

  6. #5
    Curious, where is your SHBG at currently?

  7. #6
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    Last Shbg was ~22nmol with TT 650ng. My doc never heard of LC/MS testing so he rejected the idea. He suggested to start Tamoxifen but I read that one of its metabolites is a strong AI.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dimebag View Post
    Last Shbg was ~22nmol with TT 650ng. My doc never heard of LC/MS testing so he rejected the idea. He suggested to start Tamoxifen but I read that one of its metabolites is a strong AI.
    Interesting because it's the new standard for E2 testing in males undergoing TRT, it's in the updated guidelines your doctor clearly doesn't follow. It doesn't sound like your doctor has a open mind, this means he can't ever learn new things and will continue doing things wrong.

    You doctors thinking, your the patient and what the hell could you know. You need the type of doctor who stays up to date on current events.

  9. #8
    On a practical level, you can obtain a sensitive e2 test via www.discountedlabs.com. All bloodwork is run through LabCorp. Many of us use it.

    The comments about your doctor are appropriate. If the LC, MS/MS estradiol test was new to him, he may not be the physician to help you through this.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Systemlord View Post
    Interesting because it's the new standard for E2 testing in males undergoing TRT, it's in the updated guidelines your doctor clearly doesn't follow. It doesn't sound like your doctor has a open mind, this means he can't ever learn new things and will continue doing things wrong.

    You doctors thinking, your the patient and what the hell could you know. You need the type of doctor who stays up to date on current events.
    Not being facetious at all, where did you see these current updated guidelines as I'd like to show this to my urologist

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dimebag View Post
    Last Shbg was ~22nmol with TT 650ng. My doc never heard of LC/MS testing so he rejected the idea. He suggested to start Tamoxifen but I read that one of its metabolites is a strong AI.
    Ignorance + arrogance makes for poor medicine, and it all too common among MDs in particular. I don't expect them to know everything - as that's not possible - but I expect them to be open minded and be willing to look into things when presented with new info/ideas.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nurselyfe View Post
    Not being facetious at all, where did you see these current updated guidelines as I'd like to show this to my urologist
    It was actually urologist guidelines and thought I save the link, still trying to find it. It mention the use of AI's together with HCG and the standard use of LC/MS/MS testing.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Brink View Post
    I don't expect them to know everything - as that's not possible - but I expect them to be open minded and be willing to look into things when presented with new info/ideas.
    That is a good point. I can't fault a doctor for not knowing everything or having different view, but they should be willing to look at other options and update their thoughts when improvements are available.

  14. #13
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    You did not permanently crash your E2, but recovery time after a crash differs from person to person. When I lowered my E2 below 10, it took a good 2 months before it was back in the 20's and then another month or two in that range to start feeling better. When my night sweats started going away, I knew I was in the clear.

  15. #14
    I’d say no way to permanently crash e2 unless you have liver failure. Then you die so hormones are LMR much of an issue. Extra hcg dhea, more test would speed it up, but it may be a roller coaster getting back to normal.

  16. #15
    It's going to take time. Keep doing what you are doing, ride it out, and never touch an AI again. You didn't need one in the first place.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Systemlord View Post
    It was actually urologist guidelines and thought I save the link, still trying to find it. It mention the use of AI's together with HCG and the standard use of LC/MS/MS testing.
    This would be great if you could find it.


    To the OP, the others are right. There's no way to permanently crash your E2. Your body will recover as long as your T production is high enough. I would get the LC/MS E2 testing to see where you're really at.

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