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Wow those are some ridiculously high levels! Any chance you can reduce to 20mg daily? Propionate is kind of tricky where every 1mg a day increase causes exponential testosterone increase. Hopefully this gets you a more normal level!

Oh yeah, that’s the one consistent part of his protocol

How does he not have low e2 symptoms on that protocol?! I swear to God almighty! Forget hair loss, how about bone loss from e2 antagonism. When I tried the scrotal cream I needed to use injections alongside it because the dht was wayyyyy too much. Felt like I had zero estrogen in my body, wasn’t...

He also switches his protocol every 2-3 weeks. From his last video he isn’t even taking prop at the moment. He’s using enan I believe plus Proviron. Who knows because he’s constantly changing…

Have you gotten labs on 40mg daily? Genuinely curious, that seems ridiculously high but some people are poor absorbers I guess. But still…

Just curious if anyone on prop still does injections before bed? I switched to doing 12mg before bed subq and it feels much better. I think prop spikes way slower than most people think on this thread. I know, I know I need to get bloodwork but I haven’t been on protocol long enough. I’ll get...

Thanks!

What brand do you like because I use a 20mg cream but I only use a quarter of a pump

I haven’t interacted with Roy much, but every time I see him “interacting” with others here he’s stomping his feet like an angry little girl. Not too masculine of him!

Anyone on prop use progesterone cream? It seems to alleviate the overstimulation for me and all test forms do reduce neurosteroids

Honestly, I restarted taking low dose progesterone cream and it seems to calm the overstimulation from test prop and it slightly lowers estrogen. Helps at night for me and test is known to lower neurosteroids. I don’t tolerate preg well but dhea and prog work for me. Worth a shot if you’re...

I cut my leg recently (wasn’t too bad but needed surgery) and they gave me 10 oxycodone. When I tell you that was my absolute best week of sleep, I mean it. I’ve had surgery 5 times in my life and everytime I’m reminded why we have an opioid epidemic. This isn’t to say you should use highly...

Honestly the only ones worth my time have been magnesium, l theanine and when needed Benadryl. I’ve tried everything else and most things either didn’t help or backfired.

I think it was Dorian Yates that used to sell GHB in his sleep supplement up until like 2010 or later. Wish I got into supplements then lol

Forgot to add: I started on 3 clicks in the morning then added cream plus cyp (it’s all I had) because I was crashing at night. 30mg weekly of cyp plus 3 clicks. My TT after both a day with injecting and cream was only 536. Not good with the amount I was using

Switching off cream, I wasn’t absorbing it well and my dht/e2 was super off. The good feeling started to wane off after about 3-5 weeks and my hypothyroidism symptoms came back and worse. Also didn’t help my sleep like I hoped. Switching back to propionate which seems to alleviate a lot of...

@Systemlord Thank you! My defy appointment is on the 4th I was able to move my appointment up. My t3 labs show potential sub clinical hypothyroidism. I’ll see what Ben thinks. I admittedly don’t know much about the thyroid, we never really learned about it in paramedic school largely because...

Thank you, sorry for being off topic. In what ways did cream not work for you? I started cream recently after using cyp and haven’t had the sex drive I was hoping for. Prop gave me the best sex drive, mood, what have you but insomnia. I learned recently I’m hypothyroid which causes all the...

Older thread but I just recently found out I have hypothyroidism. Can only wonder if my trt woes are due to it!

Anyone on cream try doing something like 3 clicks in the morning, one at night? Or even use an injected base along with cream? I feel like I’m crashing at night and feeling like shit. Best I felt was on propionate but it gave me insomnia. Sorry if I’m hijacking the thread

I see, you are right. And here I thought I had a fix to BA/BB causing issues in some. Do you have any thoughts?

Any brand you prefer?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK539783/#:~:text=Excess%20acetylcholine%20in%20the%20brain,giddiness%2C%20confusion%2C%20and%20drowsiness. This doesn’t mention depression but many other articles do

That sounds like the quintessential high acetylcholine symptom, I get the exact same feeling on eggs if eaten too often. I think we’ve found an explanation as to why some can’t handle BB/BA. Now, it’s clear that E works well for you, I might try it. I am only 3 weeks into cream though so I’m...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11440272/#:~:text=These%20results%20predict%20that%20T3,synaptosomal%20Mg2%2B%2DATPase%20activity. It could be implied an issue with injectables comes from a thyroid issue

I have noticed certain high choline foods give me bouts of restlessness, I eat very clean personally. I’ve tried carnivore, keto, Mediterranean etc. the thing is healthy foods are packed with choline so it’s not wise to avoid them. Instead it’s ideal to find ways to digest choline better. Looks...

I have not, haven’t had the chance until recently

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6090685/

My next appointment is in July and I’ll bring up prop. I do all of those and have persistent sleep issues. I’m currently reading an article on how benzyl alcohol decreases acetylcholinesterase in rat models, I’ve noticed that injectable test of either cyp or prop makes me far more sensitive to...

Every morning IM, I would try EOD if I can’t get cream to feel the same but I think it might simply be too much dht crashing e2. We shall see. Again I wish I could be prop’s biggest fan but it messes with sleep just the same as cyp did. The day someone makes prop without BA will be a 3 day feast

I’m going to try to replicate the prop feel by splitting it on shoulders and scrotum. You’re definitely on to something with the DHT/E2 ratio. I’m not a heavy duty aromatizer (for better or for worse). E2 labs it is then. I really, really wish prop wouldn’t cause me insomnia because it felt the...