I can’t quite figure out how much to eat and of what

Rykertest

New Member
This is a bit embarrassing to admit, but I struggle with basic nutrition to achieve meaningful fat loss despite thinking I understand it. My results, or lack there of, would indicate I do not so I’m going back to square one with this post. I’m provide some details and past dieting history for reference.

51, male, non smoker, on trt, 5’8”, 214 lbs. I supplement with a multi vitamin every other day, DHEA, aspirin, glycine and magnesium for sleep. I currently lift weights every 3rd day and walk at an incline, sometimes with a weighted vest 5-6 days week or an hour. Due to problematic shoulders I no longer lift heavy and go for slower reps, lighter weight and 20 or so reps with 2-3 sets. I go for weight that at slightly higher reps makes me struggle with the last 3-5 reps. Not failure, but close. I’ve been using a Dorian Yates workout plan seen here:
  • Day 1: Chest, Biceps
  • Exercises: Incline Bench Press, Straight Bar Curl.
  • Day 2: Legs
  • Exercises: Box Squats, Calf raises
  • Day 3: Shoulders, Triceps
  • Exercises: Shoulder Press, Lat
    Pulldowns, Dumbbell Shrugs, Triceps push downs
  • Day 4: Back
  • Exercises: Straight Bar Pullover, Cable Rows, Trap Bar dead’s.
I like this workout plan and plan to stick with it as it’s challenging and I’m able to avoid problem issues joint wise with this set up. I also have started Muay Thai twice a week for an hour each class. I workout at home as there are no gyms near my home.

My TRT started a few years back when I was in a deep hole. High stress job, high stress home life (medical issues with a family member not marriage related) higher alcohol use, horrific sleep, no working out, you get the picture. It’s helped me immensely to be more productive and accomplish things each day instead of just sitting around like I was. The fact that I’m working out, trying to eat right, sleeping better and all my bloodwork is vastly improved is all due to TRT. My dose is modest and I’m happy where it’s at as is my Dr.

Food - random facts. I rarely drink alcohol, maybe every 3-4 months I’ll have a few stiff belts and call it a day for another 3 months. The older I get I drink even less than that so I expect alcohol will become a thing of the past in short order. I don’t eat candy bars or snack cakes, etc. I never drink nor drank soda and can count on one hand the times I eat out each year as far as fast food. It makes me feel like crap and eating out gets expensive so unless I’m traveling and don’t have a choice, I haven’t done it in decades as a general rule. If I do it’s a burger and a water. I sometimes will eat out every few months and get sushi or a steak but again, almost all my eating is grocery food. In the past I’ve tried fasting, higher carb, keto and carnivore. They don’t stick because it’s inconvenient to my work schedule (first responder with rotating shift work) physically I feel best on lower carb (average 100 grams a day) Very low carbs like with keto/carnivore made my insomnia even worse. I was averaging 3 hours of sleep a night and that’s a recipe for disaster. I now average 6-6.5 and feel good so I’ll take it. Also, synthetic sweeteners , most vegetables and grains like oatmeal, tear my stomach up. Horrible gas and bloating and even when I stuck with it for many months because I was told I would adjust to the higher fiber, I always felt like crap and oddly enough my joints would have a dull ache. Most days my meals consist of yogurts (Fage 0% Greek and Chobani flavored) , whole eggs, cottage cheese, sliced/shredded cheese, beef, sometimes bison, chicken, fairlife protein shakes, some potatoes (sweet, Yukon and russet), fruits (mostly berries and some avocados, kiwis and bananas) all natural peanut butter, coffee with a splash of heavy cream, a random glass of pomegranate or pineapple juice, turkey, sour cream, salsa, white albacore tuna, a random slice of sourdough bread, some tortilla chips, 72% dark chocolate, sometimes homemade ice cream a handful of times a year and condiments are mustard, avocado mayo, sugar free ketchup, salt, kerrygold butter, hot sauce and once in a blue moon some ranch dressing. I do have protein powder but find myself not using it much and don’t plan to buy more when this runs out. I aim for bare minimum 150 grams of protein a day and usually get to 175-180 on average. I’ve been steady with 2000 calories a day and have been weighing and measuring my food. I’ve been tracking my food very consistently for 4 months and while I feel good, workouts are good, my long term insomnia is improving/stabilizing, my strength is slowly going up and my clothes fit a TINY bit looser overall, I’m perplexed that I’ve not lost more fat. I have PLENTY to lose so even if I was recomping, I’d expect the scale to move more or my clothes to fit much looser. I’m starting to think that even with my activity level and lower carb, I’m at a gnats hair below maintenance and that’s frustrating. My first major goal is to get below 200, then 185. I was that weight before and because I’ve always been stocky (in a good way with broad shoulders, thick neck, big booty), I felt good at 180-185. So all in all, I need to drop 30 lbs and I’m starting to feel like on that specific goal, I’m spinning my wheels. I’ve gotten some advice about eating less and man, 2000 calories with working out and having a blue collar job tests, and admittedly breaks, my willpower embarrassingly quick.

So, there you have it. My little story in a nutshell. Any other info you may need to dial in any advice, please ask. Thanks for the help.
 
A few ideas. First, congratulations on the progress you've made so far! You're way ahead of many people.
- For diet in general, I recommend people use the book Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet as a home base, but it sounds like you are fairly close to what he recommends.
- IME seed oils are the number one dietary offender, but with the exception of chicken and chips, it sounds like you are avoiding them
- Be aware that it's easier to gain fat than it is to lose it. The body seems to defend a "set-point' of fat
- What I've seen and heard of being effective in your situation is eating a fairly high-calorie diet the days before your workouts, and then two days a week significantly cutting calories. This type of approach keeps the body from reducing your metabolic rate (which is what happens with constant reduction of calories) and seems to be maintainable for many people.
- If you can do some form of brief HIIT once a week, like sled-pushing or uphill sprints, IMO that is worth adding in.
- TMG (Tri-methyl Glycine) has known fat-loss properties and is worth adding in IMO.
-Note that muscle is very dense so if your lifting is causing muscle gain, you may have lost more fat than you realize. The most important thing is to eliminate as much mid-secti0on bloat as you can since that is indicative of visceral fat and other bad things.

Ok. Most importantly, hang in there and stay with it. It took me about 18 months to drop some unnecessary mid-section fat so it can take a while. You can always do multi-day fasts when your schedule allows if nothing else works.
 
A few ideas. First, congratulations on the progress you've made so far! You're way ahead of many people.
- For diet in general, I recommend people use the book Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet as a home base, but it sounds like you are fairly close to what he recommends.
- IME seed oils are the number one dietary offender, but with the exception of chicken and chips, it sounds like you are avoiding them
- Be aware that it's easier to gain fat than it is to lose it. The body seems to defend a "set-point' of fat
- What I've seen and heard of being effective in your situation is eating a fairly high-calorie diet the days before your workouts, and then two days a week significantly cutting calories. This type of approach keeps the body from reducing your metabolic rate (which is what happens with constant reduction of calories) and seems to be maintainable for many people.
- If you can do some form of brief HIIT once a week, like sled-pushing or uphill sprints, IMO that is worth adding in.
- TMG (Tri-methyl Glycine) has known fat-loss properties and is worth adding in IMO.
-Note that muscle is very dense so if your lifting is causing muscle gain, you may have lost more fat than you realize. The most important thing is to eliminate as much mid-secti0on bloat as you can since that is indicative of visceral fat and other bad things.

Ok. Most importantly, hang in there and stay with it. It took me about 18 months to drop some unnecessary mid-section fat so it can take a while. You can always do multi-day fasts when your schedule allows if nothing else works.
Thank you for taking the time to reply with such detail. I had a question specific to your recommendation for high/low calories days. If possible, please elaborate on exactly what that would look like. When you say “high calories”, is that 200 more, 500 more, etc? Also, on lower calories days, same question in reverse. I’d like to try this asap and see how it affects things. Thanks again!
 
Thank you for taking the time to reply with such detail. I had a question specific to your recommendation for high/low calories days. If possible, please elaborate on exactly what that would look like. When you say “high calories”, is that 200 more, 500 more, etc? Also, on lower calories days, same question in reverse. I’d like to try this asap and see how it affects things. Thanks again!
Regarding calories, the whole point is to reduce overall calories while maintaining your metabolic rate, so the first question is whether your metabolic rate has already declined due to chronic calorie restriction or whether you are at a maintainable steady state. To be safe you could add 100 calories per day on your "normal" days and then cut by 500-800 on your two low calories days. That should produce a net cut while hopefully not causing your body to go into "starvation mode". My understanding is that emphasizing carbs on your low calorie periods may work best for many people but you can experiment. Note that a "day" can be from noon to noon which is what I do so that I can get protein in after my workouts and also refuel for my next workout.

Also, something else to be aware of is that you are unlikely to maintain your strength if you lose a lot of fat in a short time, so you will have to decide what your priority is.
 
This is a bit embarrassing to admit, but I struggle with basic nutrition to achieve meaningful fat loss despite thinking I understand it. My results, or lack there of, would indicate I do not so I’m going back to square one with this post. I’m provide some details and past dieting history for reference.

51, male, non smoker, on trt, 5’8”, 214 lbs. I supplement with a multi vitamin every other day, DHEA, aspirin, glycine and magnesium for sleep. I currently lift weights every 3rd day and walk at an incline, sometimes with a weighted vest 5-6 days week or an hour. Due to problematic shoulders I no longer lift heavy and go for slower reps, lighter weight and 20 or so reps with 2-3 sets. I go for weight that at slightly higher reps makes me struggle with the last 3-5 reps. Not failure, but close. I’ve been using a Dorian Yates workout plan seen here:
  • Day 1: Chest, Biceps
  • Exercises: Incline Bench Press, Straight Bar Curl.
  • Day 2: Legs
  • Exercises: Box Squats, Calf raises
  • Day 3: Shoulders, Triceps
  • Exercises: Shoulder Press, Lat
    Pulldowns, Dumbbell Shrugs, Triceps push downs
  • Day 4: Back
  • Exercises: Straight Bar Pullover, Cable Rows, Trap Bar dead’s.
I like this workout plan and plan to stick with it as it’s challenging and I’m able to avoid problem issues joint wise with this set up. I also have started Muay Thai twice a week for an hour each class. I workout at home as there are no gyms near my home.

My TRT started a few years back when I was in a deep hole. High stress job, high stress home life (medical issues with a family member not marriage related) higher alcohol use, horrific sleep, no working out, you get the picture. It’s helped me immensely to be more productive and accomplish things each day instead of just sitting around like I was. The fact that I’m working out, trying to eat right, sleeping better and all my bloodwork is vastly improved is all due to TRT. My dose is modest and I’m happy where it’s at as is my Dr.

Food - random facts. I rarely drink alcohol, maybe every 3-4 months I’ll have a few stiff belts and call it a day for another 3 months. The older I get I drink even less than that so I expect alcohol will become a thing of the past in short order. I don’t eat candy bars or snack cakes, etc. I never drink nor drank soda and can count on one hand the times I eat out each year as far as fast food. It makes me feel like crap and eating out gets expensive so unless I’m traveling and don’t have a choice, I haven’t done it in decades as a general rule. If I do it’s a burger and a water. I sometimes will eat out every few months and get sushi or a steak but again, almost all my eating is grocery food. In the past I’ve tried fasting, higher carb, keto and carnivore. They don’t stick because it’s inconvenient to my work schedule (first responder with rotating shift work) physically I feel best on lower carb (average 100 grams a day) Very low carbs like with keto/carnivore made my insomnia even worse. I was averaging 3 hours of sleep a night and that’s a recipe for disaster. I now average 6-6.5 and feel good so I’ll take it. Also, synthetic sweeteners , most vegetables and grains like oatmeal, tear my stomach up. Horrible gas and bloating and even when I stuck with it for many months because I was told I would adjust to the higher fiber, I always felt like crap and oddly enough my joints would have a dull ache. Most days my meals consist of yogurts (Fage 0% Greek and Chobani flavored) , whole eggs, cottage cheese, sliced/shredded cheese, beef, sometimes bison, chicken, fairlife protein shakes, some potatoes (sweet, Yukon and russet), fruits (mostly berries and some avocados, kiwis and bananas) all natural peanut butter, coffee with a splash of heavy cream, a random glass of pomegranate or pineapple juice, turkey, sour cream, salsa, white albacore tuna, a random slice of sourdough bread, some tortilla chips, 72% dark chocolate, sometimes homemade ice cream a handful of times a year and condiments are mustard, avocado mayo, sugar free ketchup, salt, kerrygold butter, hot sauce and once in a blue moon some ranch dressing. I do have protein powder but find myself not using it much and don’t plan to buy more when this runs out. I aim for bare minimum 150 grams of protein a day and usually get to 175-180 on average. I’ve been steady with 2000 calories a day and have been weighing and measuring my food. I’ve been tracking my food very consistently for 4 months and while I feel good, workouts are good, my long term insomnia is improving/stabilizing, my strength is slowly going up and my clothes fit a TINY bit looser overall, I’m perplexed that I’ve not lost more fat. I have PLENTY to lose so even if I was recomping, I’d expect the scale to move more or my clothes to fit much looser. I’m starting to think that even with my activity level and lower carb, I’m at a gnats hair below maintenance and that’s frustrating. My first major goal is to get below 200, then 185. I was that weight before and because I’ve always been stocky (in a good way with broad shoulders, thick neck, big booty), I felt good at 180-185. So all in all, I need to drop 30 lbs and I’m starting to feel like on that specific goal, I’m spinning my wheels. I’ve gotten some advice about eating less and man, 2000 calories with working out and having a blue collar job tests, and admittedly breaks, my willpower embarrassingly quick.

So, there you have it. My little story in a nutshell. Any other info you may need to dial in any advice, please ask. Thanks for the help.
I would try 2 or 3 well portioned meals. lots of veggies, fermented kimchi, protein and stop eating at 4pm
 
Regarding calories, the whole point is to reduce overall calories while maintaining your metabolic rate, so the first question is whether your metabolic rate has already declined due to chronic calorie restriction or whether you are at a maintainable steady state. To be safe you could add 100 calories per day on your "normal" days and then cut by 500-800 on your two low calories days. That should produce a net cut while hopefully not causing your body to go into "starvation mode". My understanding is that emphasizing carbs on your low calorie periods may work best for many people but you can experiment. Note that a "day" can be from noon to noon which is what I do so that I can get protein in after my workouts and also refuel for my next workout.

Also, something else to be aware of is that you are unlikely to maintain your strength if you lose a lot of fat in a short time, so you will have to decide what your priority is.
So how’s this look for a plan.

Monday - 2100 calories - Muay Thai and Walk 45 Min+
Tuesday - 2100 calories - Lift and Walk 45 Min+
Wednesday - 1500 calories - Walk 45 Min+
Thursday - 2100 calories- Muay Thai and Walk 45 Min+
Friday - 2100 Lift and Walk 45 Min+
Saturday - 1500 Calories - Off
Sunday - 2100 Calories - Lift
 
So how’s this look for a plan.

Monday - 2100 calories - Muay Thai and Walk 45 Min+
Tuesday - 2100 calories - Lift and Walk 45 Min+
Wednesday - 1500 calories - Walk 45 Min+
Thursday - 2100 calories- Muay Thai and Walk 45 Min+
Friday - 2100 Lift and Walk 45 Min+
Saturday - 1500 Calories - Off
Sunday - 2100 Calories - Lift
Youve got to be in sick shape with all that activity hoss!
 
Youve got to be in sick shape with all that activity hoss!
Im not totally worthless. lol. I’m going to run this for 4 weeks and see if I feel run down or need to take a week off. The reality is life sometimes gets in the way or work kicks my butt and I will take a day off or just walk. Walking is kind of relaxing for me. It’s somewhat common to spread my 7 day routine to 9/10 days. I don’t sweat it, it happens.
 

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