What other non-psychiatry treatments for depression are there?

Thread starter #22
I'm going to do TRT combined with CBT instead of TRT + DBS (deep brain stimulation therapy, which is brain surgery) like I originally planned. TMS and ECT didn't work, but I'm now wondering if my depression has more chance of being eliminated if I do ECT with TRT and CBT.

 
#23
I am responding here rather than to your private message:


"I'm sorry about making an ignorant comment about hormone therapists."

It is up to you what to take into consideration for your own needs.



"I should probably see an endocrinologist as well." "Are they called endocrinologists?"

Spend a good amount of time reading this forum and I think it will become obvious that the average endocrinologist is more ignorant about TRT and issues like Thyroid than the gurus and core members of this forum and a relative few hormone specialists offering more detailed care.

Regarding your other choices for depression treatment, CBT has helped me somewhat, but I am unfamiliar with your other modalities. I wish you good luck and healing!
 
#24
CBT is pretty expensive, though.
Only the kind of CBT spoken of here

If you see a hormone specialist, they'll probably treat you regardless in order to get paid.
It was probably my depression or unconscious thinking that made that comment.
Don't apologize, you are becoming aware that you are the best master of your own ship. What do you think about the recent findings that psylisibe works when nothing else does?

I'm sorry for making an ignorant comment about hormone specialists.
Which of the following professionals are most deserving of your trust: Lobbyist, appliance repairmen, Senator, car salesman, brokers of derivatives, state amusement park ride inspector, firefighter?

Like fixing vacuum leaks before attempting tune an internal combustion engine, first detox all input... bad fuel, charlatans, bunco artists. I'm the last person to preach new age stuff but I'm rather impressed about tools for achieving greater self-integration. A British minister of health recently espoused a level of confidence in medical astrology. Modern western astrology is about discovery not fate or fortune telling. Respectable sites like astro.com and astrotheme discourage emphasis on any single aspect of one's chart giving examples of great men and women who have similar charts. It's a lot like reading psychology texts.
 
#25
You may also consider red light therapy and avoiding excessive blue light "blue-blockers" outside of daylight hours. More sunshine, less computers, TV.
 
Thread starter #26
Only the kind of CBT spoken of here




Don't apologize, you are becoming aware that you are the best master of your own ship. What do you think about the recent findings that psylisibe works when nothing else does?


Which of the following professionals are most deserving of your trust: Lobbyist, appliance repairmen, Senator, car salesman, brokers of derivatives, state amusement park ride inspector, firefighter?

Like fixing vacuum leaks before attempting tune an internal combustion engine, first detox all input... bad fuel, charlatans, bunco artists. I'm the last person to preach new age stuff but I'm rather impressed about tools for achieving greater self-integration. A British minister of health recently espoused a level of confidence in medical astrology. Modern western astrology is about discovery not fate or fortune telling. Respectable sites like astro.com and astrotheme discourage emphasis on any single aspect of one's chart giving examples of great men and women who have similar charts. It's a lot like reading psychology texts.
I didn't have a good experience with mushrooms.
 
Thread starter #27
You may also consider red light therapy and avoiding excessive blue light "blue-blockers" outside of daylight hours. More sunshine, less computers, TV.

I'm always on my computer for multiple reasons and I'm considering IT as a career choice, though. :(
 
#28
Your aversion to psychiatry is indicating your need for it.

So many guys are averse to psychological help, and turn to hormones, then complain TRT doesn't work. It does, it just can't fix true psychological issues.
 
#29
Your aversion to psychiatry is indicating your need for it.

So many guys are averse to psychological help, and turn to hormones, then complain TRT doesn't work. It does, it just can't fix true psychological issues.
So true, there are a lot of guys who wouldn't think in a million years that they suffer from depression. I've been depressed my entire life and didn't even know about it until I went on TRT, I've never been happier since I've been on TRT and realise that my T levels have most likely been low my entire life. If testosterone or a lack thereof is what's causing your depression then you should experience well being on TRT, but if your depression has another cause, you could be one of those who do not experience the well being on TRT. Sleep deprivation is huge factor for psychological problems.
 
#30
I'm going to do TRT combined with CBT instead of TRT + DBS (deep brain stimulation therapy, which is brain surgery) like I originally planned. TMS and ECT didn't work, but I'm now wondering if my depression has more chance of being eliminated if I do ECT with TRT and CBT.

It depends on what degree of depression you are suffering mild/moderate/severe and for how long? Were you ever diagnosed with a chemical imbalance? Any family history of depression? Depression can be caused by many factors-lack of sleep/excess stress/alcohol-drug abuse/poor nutrition(deficiency vit/min) the list goes on. Sure having healthy testosterone levels can improve mood/wellbeing but if your depression is due to genetic factors (neurotransmitter imbalance) testosterone will not cure it. You may very well need therapy/medication if it is more than the temporary blues. Depression runs in my family and I was diagnosed with depression/ocd as a young teen 16 years old and have dealt with the ill effects it has on ones mental health.
 
#31
I'm always on my computer for multiple reasons and I'm considering IT as a career choice, though. :(
"considering IT as a career choice" ? Opsimath how old are you? Yes it makes a difference as to the advice we should offer. Getting a doctor to agree toTRT if you in your teens or even mid 20's is very difficult. There are several other paths to try first.
 
#32
Your aversion to psychiatry is indicating your need for it.

So many guys are averse to psychological help, and turn to hormones, then complain TRT doesn't work. It does, it just can't fix true psychological issues.
Spot on with this JD. I didn't feel like getting into this, as this is what I do for a living and it was starting to feel like a work day with a reluctant client. TRT is not going to help anyone with a major psychiatric issue, and this may be one of those. Most guys who respond to TRT for a psychiatric issue are really responding to the improved diet, exercise, better sex, and even the placebo effect. The placebo effect is approximately 40% of the benefit in most clinical trials. Some people are treatment resistant no matter what they are prescribed, even if they do therapy. In the field of mental health, there is a term for this, treatment resistant. Usually the client could do well, but their negative attitude gets in the way, often through no fault of their own. This is where meds can help, giving the client the mental energy to do the needed work. I treat clients with CBT usually, as that is my theoretical orientation. Change thinking, maintain a predictable schedule , eat right, exercise, and don't overthink things.

A big part of being a therapist is giving a client the hope that they will improve if they just put in the effort. It's one of the reasons that, for me, I have to walk the walk myself. Opsimath, you have to start believing that you aren't so special that you can't improve your life. In reality, you are just another passenger on this bus called life and if others can change their life and get what they want and be happy, so can you.
 
#33
Spot on with this JD. I didn’t feel like getting into this, as this is what I do for a living and it was starting to feel like a work day with a reluctant client. TRT is not going to help anyone with a major psychiatric issue, and this may be one of those. Most guys who respond to TRT for a psychiatric issue are really responding to the improved diet, exercise, better sex, and even the placebo effect. The placebo effect is approximately 40% of the benefit in most clinical trials. Some people are treatment resistant no matter what they are prescribed, even if they do therapy. In the field of mental health, there is a term for this, treatment resistant. Usually the client could do well, but their negative attitude gets in the way, often through no fault of their own. This is where meds can help, giving the client the mental energy to do the needed work. I treat clients with CBT usually, as that is my theoretical orientation. Change thinking, maintain a predictable schedule , eat right, exercise, and don’t overthink things.

A big part of being a therapist is giving a client the hope that they will improve if they just put in the effort. It’s one of the reasons that, for me, I have to walk the walk myself. Opsimath, you have to start believing that you aren’t so special that you can’t improve your life. In reality, you are just another passenger on this bus called life and if others can change their life and get what they want and be happy, so can you.
Personally I think it's the stigma against it, I mean this guy is literally asking for anything but psychological treatment for a psychological issue. So many won't even consider it, when deep down they know it's the possible solution.

My father had the same aversion. He sought help but backed out almost right away, 2 weeks later he killed himself.

So yeah it's mostly an American white male thing in my opinion.

At least with a reluctant client they have taken the first step as they're in your office. There's so much more you can do with that person as opposed to one you never meet.
 
#35
Mountain Man,

Have you ever used Neurofeedback/EEG Biofeedback and are you an advocate for it??
I have no experience with it, it requires specialized training. It is frequently used for adhd in children and my area is adult psychotherapy and substance abuse treatment.

My bias is that , too often, people are looking for some magic pill or cutting edge treatment, and that can be of help but more conventional treatments should be exhausted first. This thread discussed depression and that is a complicated issue. My approach would be CBT, combined with diet, moderate exercise, and meditation. If a client struggles with that, or is potentially suicidal, meds can be an adjunct. Direct discussion, face to face, with a licensed professional is needed in almost all cases. Internet forums are not the greatest place for mental health advice.

JD is correct. Too many men would rather suffer alone than admit they need to get help. Some would rather die. Senseless, as depression is treatable, but a miracle cure ain't going to do it.
 
#36
I had a form of biofeedback using heart rate variability and capnometry monitoring that was instrumental in helping me learn to observe my own physiological reactions to PTSD triggers.

My reactions either start in the mind where a thought, memory etc triggers response or there is an external trigger, either of which set off the amygdala starting a physiological cascade before the conscious mind has a clue it is happening. The heart rate variability and CO2 levels indicate when this kind of response is happening. Through learning the physical clues of this process, I started learning how to better recognize what my thought and external triggers were, and earlier in the process when a stress reaction was being provoked. The trick then is to be able to self calm by conscious realization that life is not actually in danger closer to onset rather than it taking me into a longer term downward spiral..

Meditation is another form of biofeedback though without machinery, and over the longer term learning to find a calm place through meditating can be transferred into non meditation circumstances. I haven;t mastered this, and am still working on all aspects of it, but bringing the self recognition of trigger phenomenon together with better ability to access calm has reduced my stress responses. For me this has been partly accomplished through this unique kind of meditation feedback and better developed brain body awareness.

Depression is a different beast though. Not sure other than finding the calm peaceful meditative comfy place-self soothing how biofeedback would apply. Perhaps if you can reprogram to access more positive thoughts and feelings through the feedback

P.S. relating this more to the OP, I didn't do this alone. One psychologist had the biofeedback expertise, another helped with some of the aspects of meditation, and a third focused on CBT.

And just a footnote: For me CBT is helpful but not the ultimate solution to all issues. While I work very well in some ways using the cognitive mind to re-pattern outlook and behaviors, there are other aspects of mind which are not solved through cognitive, but rather through feeling processes. I would have never gotten to this point regarding my PTSD issues using CBT alone. These sort of feedback based brain body and feeling connections are fundamental to me, and they are not cognitive processes.
 
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#40
Amazing about micro dosing psychedelics... so that's mushrooms and even LSD. I have a hard time getting good HCG I can't imagine what sort of LSD I'd end up with:rolleyes:

http://reset.me/story/benefits-of-microdosing-with-lsd-and-psilocybin-mushrooms/
I believe micro dosing of psychedelics holds a lot of promise for treating many psychological/physical issues hoping more research comes to light. I remember in my youth trying mushrooms various times and it was an amazing experience (crystal clear mind almost in a zone/perception and visuals enhanced/great overall feeling of well being) it was almost as if all of ones senses were enhanced/tuned in.
 
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