Question about problems and E2 in mid-late restart protocol

[DFL]

I'll try to keep this as simple as I can. I'm in the 6th week of a protocol to come off TRT after 5 years. That is a long time, and I knew to expect side effects. And I've had a lot. But the most troublesome right now is intense, emotional mood swings, and bad anxiety. I know that high E2 can cause those things.

I was at 114mg Cyp/week in 3 divided doses, with 500iu HCG/week in 2 divided doses. The protocol has gone like this:

Weeks 1-4, HCG 1500iu/week in 3 divided doses, Text Cyp 90mg, 90mg, 60mg, 30mg.
Weeks 5-10 Clomid 12.5mg daily, Anastrozole .125 3x week, while tapering HCG weeks 5 and 6.

I'm in week 6 and should have two more HCG doses of 200, then 100. My last 10mg Cyp was 10 days ago.

I started getting mood swings about 4 days after the last shot of test, and since then a whole bucket list of side effects. I've pretty much been handing it, but I had trouble leaving the house the past few days because of anxiety, dizziness, etc. And yesterday was a day from hell. I tried to ride my bike down the street but couldn't because of the balance problem, I had fits of emotions about my girlfriend who is on a long trip, I had anxiety so bad it was getting scary. And I was on day 4 of insomnia with night sweats. I was literally pacing my living room at one point last night trying to figure out what to do. I even texted my ex-wife about it because I need to talk to someone!

Today I felt better for a lot of the day, went for a bike ride and went to the beach, before breaking down on the way home thinking about my girl being gone for a long time. I thought maybe the improvement could be because I took Anastrozole .125 two days in a row. Which made me think, is a lot of the anxiety and mood swings coming from high E2, and is .125 3x/week not enough? Could I control this better with a higher dose?

Or something else? Or is is just because I've been on so long? Or should I bump up HCG and stay on it for a bit?

I was pretty much at the breaking point last night, and I REALLY don't want to go back on after going through all this.

I'd really appreciate any help or suggestions.

 

[JmarkH]

Where did you come up with this "restart protocol?" Why did you want a "restart protocol?"

 

[DFL]

It's an accelerated version of a protocol found on this forum, and verified with my provider. I wanted to minimize side effects from testosterone withdraw.

I realized I should not have accelerated it, and likely should continue HCG for longer. At this point I realized I've totally screwed it up and am paying for it. I am trying to figure out how to fix it. Possibly step back to just HCG and AI for a couple of weeks, then move forward with Clomid while tapering HCG. And maybe a more potent AI dosage.

 

[JmarkH]

I don't understand the use of the AI. Or the tapering off of TC. Even a lower dose of TC will suppress endogenous T. If you're trying to restart natural production, I don't get why you would do that.
There are many here with a better handle on all of this. Maybe they will jump in here.

 

[DFL]

My knowledge is limited, just what I've learned from trial and error and reading here on the forum for the past 5 years. My understanding of the use of the AI is to control E2 with the higher doses of HCG, after that I don't know. There are many ways to do this, and many differing opinions. I'm just trying to do what makes the most sense from what I have been able to gather, and what I was told by my provider. I wasn't expecting the severity of the side effects.

I'm just trying to figure out the best way forward, without going backward to Test.

 

[Systemlord]

I was at 114mg Cyp/week in 3 divided doses, with 500iu HCG/week in 2 divided doses. The protocol has gone like this:

Weeks 1-4, HCG 1500iu/week in 3 divided doses, Text Cyp 90mg, 90mg, 60mg, 30mg.
Weeks 5-10 Clomid 12.5mg daily, Anastrozole .125 3x week, while tapering HCG weeks 5 and 6.

I'm in week 6 and should have two more HCG doses of 200, then 100. My last 10mg Cyp was 10 days ago.

You’re torturing yourself unnecessarily, with this slow taper. You should have just stopped TRT, stay on hCG for 15 days followed by 28 days of clomid.

I stopped cold turkey in 2019 and 4.5 weeks later, I returned to baseline.

 

[DFL]

I'm certainly feeling that now. I've been off test for 11 days. Possibly my biggest mistake was not staying on a high dose of HCG for a couple of weeks, after Test and before Clomid.

Maybe the best way to get these side effects under control is to step back to HCG for two weeks. The original recommendation was 300iu ED.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

My two cents...First of all, what issue are you trying to address by coming off of T? I ask because staying on a low dose of HCG or clomid if you end up in a good place on one of them may be an option. In general, small adjustments are much easier to manage than major changes with multiple variables like what you're attempting. Also, your symptoms could also come from low E2 so without bloodwork you don't know, but in general AI's can be very difficult to manage and in my observation, they should only be used briefly if absolutely necessary. Cutting the HCG dose seems like a safer route if E2 is a concern. Being "dialed-in" is something to be grateful for under any scenario so I would be hesitant to change (except for minor adjustments) if you find yourself in a good place.

 

[DFL]

Thanks for that suggestion, certainly it could be worth pursing. I went on TRT for the wrong reasons. I was at 472 at 50 yo, but was recently divorced, depressed, anxious and feeling bad about myself. I had a friend who was feeling good on it so I thought, what the hell. I was dating at the time, and within 6-8 weeks of starting I realized I was having to use PED5s literally every time I had sex. And that has never changed, no matter what dosage, or combination. I've been chasing it for 5 years. I cannot have sex without the drugs or Trimix, and that wasn't the case before. I also had problems with orgasm for years on TRT, and finally about a year ago I cut my HCG dosage to less than half and that problem was pretty much solved. But not the ED.

So, I need to know if I can get that natural ability back, and the only way to know for sure it to come off. I think I already know that the answer is yes, even in the middle of this craziness.