Newbie Sustanon 250 and HCG protocol advice

[thegreenman90]

Hey All,

I'm a 29 year old male in Australia. I have just been prescribed TRT and HCG by my Dr for low T. My total T was around 210. LH and FSH were high so it looks like primary hypogonadism.

He's prescribed me 250mg of Sustanon 250 per 2 weeks and 1500 IU of HCG per week. I am getting more detailed bloods done for him and are yet to receive the results, so I don't know my SHBG, estrogen, free T values, etc.

I'm a total newbie to TRT but have been trying to do a lot of research. I have a few questions which hopefully you guys can help me out with.

1. It seems to be the general concensus that rather than doing an injection every 2 weeks, I'm better off injecting more frequently. Both the Sustanon 250 and the HCG. I have seen one of Nelson Virgil's videos in which he injects his TRT and HCG together in the one syringe, thereby reducing the total number of pins needed throughout the week. Since he is in the US, he probably has cypionate or enanthate. I was wondering if this method can be used for Sustanon as well? I know that Sustanon is a more viscous solution so wasn't sure if this method can be used. I assume it can be though... I plan to do the shallow IM injection in my delts and alternate delts for every dose.

2. I was thinking of doing bi-weekly doses to start with as it would be a happy medium to start with. ED or EOD injections may be hard to stick to for a newbie like myself. So that puts me at 62.5mg (250mg fortnightly dose divided by 4) of Sustanon and 750IU of HCG (1500IU weekly dose divided by 2) every 3.5 days. Is this a reasonable protocol to run to start off with? Will that amount of HCG cause my any issues?

3. In Australia, Sustanon 250 comes in ampoules, for which the glass top comes off. It doesn't come in a vial with a rubber stop. If I am to split the contents of the ampoule into 4, what would be the best method? Do I need to transfer it into a vial with a rubber stop and then pull from that every dose with a fresh needle like what Virgil seems to do in the aforementioned video? If so, what do I need to look for when I buy these vials? Or should I back fill a quarter of the total into 4 syringes, and store them for later use? Like Virgil, I would like to use 27G 1/2" needles to inject. Using the back fill method, when it comes time to inject, would I then be able to get HCG into the same needle from the HCG vial and then inject without contamination/sterility concerns?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT: Link to the video in question where Virgel injects T and HCG together:

 

[Systemlord]

so I don't know my SHBG, estrogen, free T values, etc.

Your doctor jumped the gun on prescribing your protocol before lab testing, you need to know these values before you begin TRT and come up with a protocol. If SHBG is on the lower end, this would change things a little, you would want to inject smaller doses more often.

I never understood the need to back fill the syringe, if you wanted to use the same syringe for TRT and HCG, you would need to inject SQ, but not everyone responds well to SQ. HCG may not doing anything for your testricles since you are primary.

HCG cannot be inject IM, it must be SQ. You can load syringes once the ampoule seal is broke and store in a cool dry place away from moisture. I found the 27 gauge insulin syringes to be very similar to loading a 25 gauge syringe.

 

[thegreenman90]

Your doctor jumped the gun on prescribing your protocol before lab testing, you need to know these values before you begin TRT and come up with a protocol. If SHBG is on the lower end, this would change things a little, you would want to inject smaller doses more often.

I never understood the need to back fill the syringe, if you wanted to use the same syringe for TRT and HCG, you would need to inject SQ, but not everyone responds well to SQ. HCG may not doing anything for your testricles since you are primary.

HCG cannot be inject IM, it must be SQ. You can load syringes once the ampoule seal is broke and store in a cool dry place away from moisture. I found the 27 gauge insulin syringes to be very similar to loading a 25 gauge syringe.

Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that going on TRT with primary hypogonadism would decrease LH/FSH levels as there is an exogenous supply of T in the body, necessitating the need for HCG to kick start or keep the testicles going.

In Virgel's video (

), he seems to inject the combined T and HCG solution into his delt with a shallow IM injection. Is that not right?

So without using the back fill method, if I do load syringes in advance (the syringes seem to have fixed needles), do I simply recap the needle I used to pull the solution with? Is that okay to do in terms of sterility/contamination?

 

[M.J]

I use sustanon also started with 25mg eod but stopped it now to try hcg alone 500 iu eod is concidered upper limit and 1000 iu is the top high limit to preserve fertitlity.
I did 25 mg eod but if hcg monotherapy didnt work well i will go back and try twice a week to increase testosterone fluctuations i dont want steady number as you increase injections u get steady number.
Also watch out for estrogen i use arimidix mix it with vodka to get micro dose high estrogen cuzed issues for me.
You can buy vials and store testosterone inside them to be used later i change those vials after i use them

 

[M.J]

Yea if hcg work u would need les than 25mg hell try first hcg it could work alone

 

[Systemlord]

I was under the impression that going on TRT with primary hypogonadism would decrease LH/FSH levels as there is an exogenous supply of T in the body, necessitating the need for HCG to kick start or keep the testicles going.

That's is correct, HCG can help men keep the testicles alive and producing testosterone while on TRT, but for those with primary hypogonadism, sadly this is not the case because the testicles aren't functioning properly.

You may in fact encounter shrunken testicles that pull up tight into the scrotum and there may be nothing you can do about it.

 

[Cataceous]

...
HCG cannot be inject IM, it must be SQ. ...

This is wrong. It was originally approved for IM. SubQ is a more recent thing, though preferable in my opinion.

OP, how high were LH and FSH? If they were still in the reference range then it's far from certain that you have primary hypogonadism, which is relatively uncommon. If you want to know for sure then start out with hCG monotherapy to see what kind of testosterone production you get. Even 1,500 IU a week should tell you something.

I have been drawing and injecting hCG and testosterone propionate using a single insulin syringe without backfilling. The technique I use is to alternate which vial I draw from first, and I inject double the dose volume of air only into that one. In this way I maintain sterility and never create too much suction in either vial.

If you want to be extra fastidious then you should use a filter needle when drawing from the ampule to ensure you don't get any glass shards. Then you switch to a regular needle to transfer the Sustanon to a sterile vial.

 

[thegreenman90]

OP, how high were LH and FSH? If they were still in the reference range then it's far from certain that you have primary hypogonadism, which is relatively uncommon. If you want to know for sure then start out with hCG monotherapy to see what kind of testosterone production you get. Even 1,500 IU a week should tell you something.

Thanks for the reply. My FSH and LH were 8 and 3.3 IU/L first time around. The bloods I did a week later had them at 9 and 4.0. The blood test states that the reference range of males <60 yrs is <7 for both LH and FSH. So it looks like my FSH is above that range and LH is right in the middle. Not sure what the lower bound of normal is.

When you draw from one vial first, and then the other using the same needle, does the residue on the needle from the solution of the first vial going into the second vial matter? Or is it such a small amount that it's basically insignificant?

 

[Cataceous]

Thanks for the reply. My FSH and LH were 8 and 3.3 IU/L first time around. The bloods I did a week later had them at 9 and 4.0. The blood test states that the reference range of males <60 yrs is <7 for both LH and FSH. So it looks like my FSH is above that range and LH is right in the middle. Not sure what the lower bound of normal is.

When you draw from one vial first, and then the other using the same needle, does the residue on the needle from the solution of the first vial going into the second vial matter? Or is it such a small amount that it's basically insignificant?

With those numbers it's unlikely to be primary hypogonadism. LH is the signal for more testosterone, so it's the one that would be over-range.

I think cross-contamination is negligible when drawing from two vials this way. Pulling out of the first stopper and then pushing into the second is likely pretty effective at cleaning the needle. You just need to be careful to not to push the plunger while in the second vial. This is also also why you want to keep both vials slightly pressurized.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Just use 31g needles for HCG, and do whatever you plan with the testosterone. I’ve never understood why so many people insist on making something so simple mind-numbingly complex.

I have a SHBG of 50.4, and I really feel no difference from injecting 2xs a week, once a week, or once every 2 weeks. You haven’t even tried testosterone yet and you’re already mixing it up.

 

[Cataceous]

Just use 31g needles for HCG, and do whatever you plan with the testosterone. I’ve never understood why so many people insist on making something so simple mind-numbingly complex.
...

A little extra complexity may be worthwhile if it's saving you from a lot of extra needle sticks.

 

[thegreenman90]

Just want to be well informed and not take playing around with hormones lightly. Wouldn't want to make a mistake. That being said, I'm sure I'll have to adjust dosage, protocol, etc. down the line regardless.