New member - 3 months of TRT and still feeling awful - LOW SHBG - Please help!

[madman]

Your were shut down by then, usually takes 1-3 weeks to shut down the HPTA.

More like 5-6 weeks on trt doses!

Doses of 250-500 mg/week have been shown to shutdown the HPTA within 2 weeks.

 

[Systemlord]

More like 5-6 weeks on trt doses!

Doses of 250-500 mg/week have been shown to shutdown the HPTA within 2 weeks.

I usually hear complaints of men returning to a pre-TRT state between 1-3 weeks, at a time when their levels are still building up in their system. It was assumed their natural production was declining during this time losing natural T and are left with just injectable Test.

 

[pfuked]

I have low shbg also. 70 mg t cyp with 300 units of hcg with .25 arimidex every 3 days works for me. T is injected subq. My total is about 1000 and free is at the upper range. Estrogen is at lower end. I feel great.

 

[pfuked]

Oops, I do 60 mg t cyp not 70

 

[teehee]

Update - Not really feeling much better. there was a transient period of increase energy, drive, and sense of well being that lasted a week or so but its long gone.

Could the lack of results be due to low shbg? Kind of coming to a loss for why else it's not working. Going to continue until my first labs in about another 5 weeks.

Current protocol - 50 mg cyp IM 3x/week . 350 IU HCG 3x week.
I took AI a few times, but decided to stay off it. I want to let the body adjust more naturally. I take some zinc supplement when I start to notice the E2 symptoms.

I also have low SHBG, 14 pre-TRT and 22 while on TRT and only do well on daily protocols. I didn't do well on SQ injections either, IM is way better for me.

The HCG increases estrogen and can cause mood and libido problems in some men and take away benefits of TRT. It is for this reason I always recommend starting TRT in isolation because otherwise you are lost wondering why you feel no better and the culprit may be the HCG.

If you had started TRT in isolation and added the HCG later and felt worse, well then you would know what is causing your problems.

TRT cannot work when there are thyroid problems which would see SHBG low.

Did you have a thyroid panel done checking TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3 and antibodies?

I posted my thyroid above.
Interesting that you are doing daily IM i suppose? I noticed that I felt better on IM as well. Subq just didn't jibe with me for some reason. But doing a daily IM injection is just a tremendous amount of pokes to the muscles. Even 3x a week is a lot for long term.

 

[Systemlord]

I don't consider a 29 gauge insulin syringe to be much of a poke, beats feeling like garbage. By taking HCG you are asking for more estrogen, there are pros and cons to HCG.

So HCG = more estrogen, 3x weekly dosing = more estrogen. The thread title is 3 months on TRT and still feeling awful. You mention started to notice high E2 symptoms.

Something has got to change or I expect you'll be in this same situation in another 3 months. You're going to have to make a choice to either drop the HCG in order to decrease estrogen or deal with the estrogen.

The same goes for your protocol, frequent dosing lowers estrogen. Your protocol could be improved upon which will see estrogen lower.

 

[pfuked]

I bet your estrogen levels are off the charts. 50 mg test cyp with 350 units hcg 3x a week is too much for someone with low shbg.

 

[Wolverine]

I have low shbg also. 70 mg t cyp with 300 units of hcg with .25 arimidex every 3 days works for me. T is injected subq. My total is about 1000 and free is at the upper range. Estrogen is at lower end. I feel great.

What is your SHBG level? Tx

 

[pfuked]

21.8 nmol/L

 

[pfuked]

21.8 nmol/L

It was 16.2 before starting TRT

 

[Systemlord]

I bet your estrogen levels are off the charts. 50 mg test cyp with 350 units hcg 3x a week is too much for someone with low shbg.

When you take a low SHBG guy and push his Total T to 800, his Free T is going to be insanely high, so then you also push his estrogen into the high normal ranges and now his Free E2 percentage is threw the roof!

I can imagine the Free E2 percentage if estrogen was 35> pg/mL would be a serious problem.

There are some low SHBG guys that can't handle estrogen on the higher end, because Free E2 percentage is too high and they need estrogen closer to 20 pg/mL to bring Free E2 percentage down to a optimal level.

 

[Indy57]

Drop the HCG and try 70mgs T on Monday and 70mg T on Thursday and then see how you feel. Inject both into the muscle ( not sub q ) and see how you feel.

Good luck!
Indy

 

[teehee]

So I'm at 2 months of injection and 4+ months overall of TRT. Still not getting consistent results.

There was a brief period month where I was feeling better, but it was short lived. At that time I had more energy for the gym, motivation, libido, drive etc. Currently, I'm basically back at my baseline for all the above symptoms.

I'm doing 50 mg Test 3x /week IM. I was doing 350 hcg x3 week but I dropped it to see if it was part of the problem.

Kind of lost as to what to do next. I tried calling Defy but basically was told I should get my labs done early and ask the provider to increase the dose next time. But IDK if a higher dose is the answer for me as 150 is a fairly high level already. Some thoughts:

- I wonder if my super low SHBG is related to my inability to get consistent results. I've tried taking berberine and Metformin to increase SHBG, we'll see if it's any higher at the next labs but no symptomatic improvement yet.

- I noticed I feel much worse when I do subq. I know it doesn't make sense, but it subq just feels like I'm injecting saline into the fat. IM seems to be the way to go for me.

- I tried doing daily subq in the beginning, but I felt absolutely nothing. IM seems to work better for me.

Would appreciate any thoughts people have.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm doing 50 mg Test 3x /week IM. I was doing 350 hcg x3 week but I dropped it to see if it was part of the problem.

I have low SHBG (14-22) and have problems on protocols that have moderate doses, I do alright at about 20mg EOD but do far better on 7-10mg daily dosing, I feel amazing. If I inject a dosage any larger than 20mg, lets just say my time on TRT is miserable.

You say your SHBG is super low so I'm taking this as <10 nmol/L and no wonder you are having problems. I don't know many super low SHBG men that do well on TRT on 50mg x3 weekly let alone a pretty heavy HCG weekly dosage.

Your TRT protocol screams I love high free estrogen which we low SHBG men are tasked dealing with by inject our doses very frequently. I haven't even addressed that you're on large weekly dose of HCG, whoa! Like you need more estrogen, !

This was never going to work. I feel much worse on SQ as well, I don't want more estrogen, I want less because I lack the natural buffer that is SHBG.

You need to drop the HCG and not look back until looking to have kids. You need to inject daily doses, trust me this is your best option. No mini-harpoons either, use 27-29 gauge insulin syringes and inject into the shoulders and quads.

I'm 32% BF and hit muscle every time.

 

[teehee]

New Labs show I should be feeling great, but I don't because of lowered SHBG and high E2.

Total T - 1100
Free T - 49
E2- 60
SHBG - 9 (down from 14)

Doing 50 mg 3x /week IM. I dropped the HCG a while ago due to concerns of high E2.

My new plan is to do daily dosing of like 15-20mg x7. Maybe even lower doses. The problem is that subq always makes me feel like shit and pinning muscles every single day sounds like a bitch. I always hit nerves in the quads or get painful bumps. The only place I can pin safely and well is the delt and doing them daily is going to fucking suck.

Currently using a 5/8 inch 25 gauge. I'm going to try to find a 27 gauge 1 inch so I can get deeper into the muscle to get better absorption and avoid the bumps. This will also let me try newer spots like ventroglutes. I seem to feel better results when I use longer needles deeper into the muscle

As far as raising SHBG, I'm going to try metformin/berberine and dropping some more body fat.

 

[Systemlord]

My new plan is to do daily dosing of like 15-20mg x7. Maybe even lower doses.

Your FT is insanely high and more than double what it needs to be to see symptoms resolution, no wonder you feel unwell. Your levels were probably swinging because SHBG is so low that when TT decrease, FT decrease by a greater degree when SHBG is low.

You should start out at around 10-12mg daily or you may be setting yourself up for more negative symptoms, you will not need a high TT to have enough FT in circulation, a TT at 450 should be enough to have decent or better FT since most are your testosterone is not bound up.

My SHBG was 22 when injecting 7-10mg daily, pre-TRT my SHBG is lower (14) because insulin resistance is suppressing my SHBG. I tried twice weekly and EOD and never had SHBG anywhere near 22 except when on a daily protocol.

You can use 27-29 gauge insulin syringes and inject IM in the shoulders and quads.

 

[teehee]

Your FT is insanely high and more than double what it needs to be to see symptoms resolution, no wonder you feel unwell. Your levels were probably swinging because SHBG is so low that when TT decrease, FT decrease by a greater degree when SHBG is low.

You should start out at around 10-12mg daily or you may be setting yourself up for more negative symptoms, you will not need a high TT to have enough FT in circulation, a TT at 450 should be enough to have decent or better FT since most are your testosterone is not bound up.

My SHBG was 22 when injecting 7-10mg daily, pre-TRT my SHBG is lower (14) because insulin resistance is suppressing my SHBG. I tried twice weekly and EOD and never had SHBG anywhere near 22 except when on a daily protocol.

You can use 27-29 gauge insulin syringes and inject IM in the shoulders and quads.

1/2 inch insulin syringe good enough to hit muscle every time? seems unlikely. there's no such thing as a 1 inch insulin syringe either .

other than that, I'll try to do the daily thing @ lower doses. thanks

 

[Systemlord]

1/2 inch insulin syringe good enough to hit muscle every time? seems unlikely. there's no such thing as a 1 inch insulin syringe either .

other than that, I'll try to do the daily thing @ lower doses. thanks

I'm 32% body fat a hit muscle everytime, you'll know if you hit muscle because it doesn't feel at all like going into fat tissue alone which I know you've done before.

Going into muscle there is more resistance and it feels harder. The shoulders tend to have less fat tissue, most men carry fat in the belly, chest and legs. I have most of my fat in the belly, chest and back, arms and legs are like twigs.

Injecting daily at first will wear on you, just know you have no choice unless you enjoy feeling terrible, we do what we have to do to feel good and if that means injecting daily, it's better than having low testosterone or testosterone excess.

I actually enjoy the act of injecting T.

 

[Ralph1985]

My shbg last time k checked was at 7. TT was at 1350 and estradiol at 57.. needless to say I felt like shit!!! All high e2 symptoms in the book.
That was doing 200mg TC once weekly. But with shbg that low I don’t anything will work not even super low daily injections which I have tried with no success. I do have hypothyroidism which is probably what’s bring my shbg so low and I’m working on it and bring back my thyroid to normal levels. Untill then idk if it would be a good idea to stop trt for now, or just keeping injecting some type dose mean while.

 

[Systemlord]

My shbg last time k checked was at 7. TT was at 1350 and estradiol at 57.. needless to say I felt like shit!!! All high e2 symptoms in the book.
That was doing 200mg TC once weekly.

You were probably suppressing SHBG at those Total T numbers.