is Soy really bad for us?

[Gianluca]

I keep bumping into data of how Soy Phytoestrogens are good for us, men and women, but the best HRT doc's out there (TOTRoundtable) say the opposite, even the king of HRT Dr John Crisler is against them, so if he is against it there must be something true for sure.

To my understanding one of the problems is that Phytoestrogen "mimic" estrogen activity in the body and also they can increase Estradiol, knowing the Alpha and Beta Estrogen receptor story and how A is the bed one having E ducking on it and causing different type of Cancer, and Phytoestrogen, the weak E, ducking at the B receptor decreasing the chance of things like Prostate and Breast cancer, was debunked, as more than one Doc at round table said "adding weaker estrogen is like adding a weaker poison to the poison", how is that?

Jerry Brainum, for those who don't know him, a well known writer, debunked the fact the Soy increase Estradiol levels in the blood, really want to see the study but I believe his judgment 100% better than mine on this. If I remember correctly Jerry mentioned that you really need to drink like 2 or 3 gallons per day of soymilk to really increase Estradiol. Below a link with a podcast with him talking about this.

Episode 225: Jerry Brainum returns to help put an end to the soy controversy and shares what he learned from Vince Gironda on optimal training - Mahler's Aggressive Strength

Below a few interesting studies and some material from LifeExtetion as well for those who like to read a little.

Serum prostate-specific antigen but not testosterone levels decrease in a randomized soy intervention among men:
Serum prostate-specific antigen but not testosterone levels decrease in a randomized soy intervention among men

Soy protein supplementation is not androgenic or estrogenic in college-aged men when combined with resistance exercise training.
Soy protein supplementation is not androgenic or estrogenic in college-aged men when combined with resistance exercise training. - PubMed - NCBI

Is Soy Safe - page 1 | Life Extension Magazine

Reduce Breast and Prostate Cancer - page 2 | Life Extension

 

[JimBob]

You should bring this up tomorrow on the Roundtable.

 

[Gianluca]

You should bring this up tomorrow on the Roundtable.

yes good idea but probably Jay would say that it is a question which has been already answered, it is also hard to exchange data though by Podcast, especially.

 

[Vince Carter]

Ive been doing a little studying on this subject lately, thanks for the post!

 

[Vince]

The fatty acids in soybeans are mostly Omega-6 polyunsaturated fats. This can be problematic because too many Omega-6s in the diet can lead to inflammation and all sorts of health issues (5, 6).

For this reason, it is very important to avoid soybean oil (and other vegetable oils high in Omega-6) and processed foods that contain it.

Be aware that the nutrient composition of soy depends dramatically on the type of soy food.

Is Soy Bad For You, or Good? The Shocking Truth

 

[Vince Carter]

Soy Boy

Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities. This pathetic state is usually achieved by an over-indulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.

The origin of the term derives from the negative effects soy consumption has been proven to have on the male physique and libido.

The average soy boy is a feminist, nonathletic, has never been in a fight, will probably marry the first girl that has sex with him, and likely reduces all his arguments to labeling the opposition as "Nazis".

See also: cuck, beta/omega male, orbiter, kissless virgin, male feminist

 

[Vince]

Soy Boy

Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities. This pathetic state is usually achieved by an over-indulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.

The origin of the term derives from the negative effects soy consumption has been proven to have on the male physique and libido.

The average soy boy is a feminist, nonathletic, has never been in a fight, will probably marry the first girl that has sex with him, and likely reduces all his arguments to labeling the opposition as "Nazis".

See also: cuck, beta/omega male, orbiter, kissless virgin, male feminist

LOL

 

[Will Brink]

"Jerry mentioned that you really need to drink like 2 or 3 gallons per day of soymilk to really increase Estradiol."

That's really the money shot. Dose makes the poison, and I agree with him, soy appears to be a non issue for men unless they were to make it a large % of cals per day for lengthy period of time, and few do that. Telling people to avoid all soy is poor science in my view and ignores the three Ds (dose, drug, duration) and I think men should enjoy their tofu when they want and some soy in their diets. I wouldn't say recommend large intakes of isolated soy proteins and so forth. I really think there's much larger issues to be concerned about then some soy in a mans diet in terms of any fears it will have systemic estrogenic effects.

 

[ndifp3]

Soy Boy

Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities. This pathetic state is usually achieved by an over-indulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.

Soy Boy

Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities. This pathetic state is usually achieved by an over-indulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.

The origin of the term derives from the negative effects soy consumption has been proven to have on the male physique and libido.

The average soy boy is a feminist, nonathletic, has never been in a fight, will probably marry the first girl that has sex with him, and likely reduces all his arguments to labeling the opposition as "Nazis".

See also: cuck, beta/omega male, orbiter, kissless virgin, male feminist

Loss of masculine traits is correlated to endocrine state. Soy is increasingly important as a protein source in an era of rapidly rising food prices. Men need to know how much is safe to eat. We can get there without marginalizing others. "Pathetic" rejected ostracized for failing to conform to one's personal rigid ideal of traditional manhood? You further imprint on this "sub-man" genotype both inference and assumption on potential for rational thought political leaning and quality of conjugal life. How about perceived sexual orientation or have times changed sufficiently that you think it best to omit that?

Let's begin with deficiency in rational thought, an inability to cogitate on pros and cons of propositions leading one to be susceptible to manipulation. Single issue voters, nationalists, and religious fundamentalists. No shortage of the viral but cognitively impaired here.

Xenoestrogens might bind to receptors without being detectable in e2 serum assays. They might cause damage which is passed through inheritance. Every manner of chemical and environmental assault likely having a cumulative affect I see no reason to completely avoid soy. Neither are the majority of men possessing any of the above alleged "soy boy" traits likely that way from eating soy.

 

[Gianluca]

Soy Boy

Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities. This pathetic state is usually achieved by an over-indulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.

The origin of the term derives from the negative effects soy consumption has been proven to have on the male physique and libido.

The average soy boy is a feminist, nonathletic, has never been in a fight, will probably marry the first girl that has sex with him, and likely reduces all his arguments to labeling the opposition as "Nazis".

See also: cuck, beta/omega male, orbiter, kissless virgin, male feminist

LOL , This data is good enough!

 

[Gianluca]

"Jerry mentioned that you really need to drink like 2 or 3 gallons per day of soymilk to really increase Estradiol."

That's really the money shot. Dose makes the poison, and I agree with him, soy appears to be a non issue for men unless they were to make it a large % of cals per day for lengthy period of time, and few do that. Telling people to avoid all soy is poor science in my view and ignores the three Ds (dose, drug, duration) and I think men should enjoy their tofu when they want and some soy in their diets. I wouldn't say recommend large intakes of isolated soy proteins and so forth. I really think there's much larger issues to be concerned about then some soy in a mans diet in terms of any fears it will have systemic estrogenic effects.

Thank you for your intervention Will, as a dietary recommendation on Soy I agree 100% with what you wrote

 

[Gianluca]

Here is something not so good, a study was proposed by Jerry Brainum, where 15gr of Soy protein per day seems to affect ReverseT3 for 6 months but then things normalize, also subject were with type 2 diabetes

The Effect of High Dose Isoflavone Supplementation on Serum Reverse T3 in Euthyroid Men With Type 2 Diabetes and Post-menopausal Women

 

[Vince Carter]

Loss of masculine traits is correlated to endocrine state. Soy is increasingly important as a protein source in an era of rapidly rising food prices. Men need to know how much is safe to eat. We can get there without marginalizing others. "Pathetic" rejected ostracized for failing to conform to one's personal rigid ideal of traditional manhood? You further imprint on this "sub-man" genotype both inference and assumption on potential for rational thought political leaning and quality of conjugal life. How about perceived sexual orientation or have times changed sufficiently that you think it best to omit that?

Let's begin with deficiency in rational thought, an inability to cogitate on pros and cons of propositions leading one to be susceptible to manipulation. Single issue voters, nationalists, and religious fundamentalists. No shortage of the viral but cognitively impaired here.

Xenoestrogens might bind to receptors without being detectable in e2 serum assays. They might cause damage which is passed through inheritance. Every manner of chemical and environmental assault likely having a cumulative affect I see no reason to completely avoid soy. Neither are the majority of men possessing any of the above alleged "soy boy" traits likely that way from eating soy.

Your Estrogen is too high. Less Soy.