Have you personally been affected by the novel coronavirus?

Renman23

Active Member

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
That post wasn't about Government or Law. It was a response to the previous poster saying he had ZERO obligation to anyone in society whose health he might endanger.
You suggested that if he exercises his constitutional rights then he is "opting out" of society while taking its benefits. That's not our system. You can't create an obligation to others that restricts one's rights unless there's due process involved. As @Lookingforward said, first prove that he specifically is a danger to others, then place the restrictions. Those in power may chafe under this burden and use the circumstances to undermine support for important rights. But we should resist this if we value our freedom.

That said, society has ways of pressuring selfish jerks that don't involve misuse of government power. For example, businesses are private property and should be allowed to deny access to those not wearing masks.
 

Lookingforward

New Member
Yes. It's a fact and has been proven thousands of times in court. No one in the USA can be held responsible for something he or she "might" have done.
 

Renman23

Active Member
Yes. It's a fact and has been proven thousands of times in court. No one in the USA can be held responsible for something he or she "might" have done.
Guys... Cowboy up!
Go to all the bars, restaurants, beaches, airplanes... any enclosed space you like, wear no masks, Hell go buck Naked!... and if you suffer no ill effects... cool
If you die... I'll nominate you for a Darwin!
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
In these situations, I wonder what has happened in the past and has our society has changed a lot from the past? I wouldn't underestimate what "can" happen if people get concerned enough.

Typhoid Mary aka Mary Mallon.

"Based on Soper’s sleuthing, the New York City Health Department took Mallon into custody in 1907 and placed her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16-acre North Brother Island, off the Bronx shoreline, with only a fox terrier as a companion."

After her second apprehension, Mallon spent the last 23 years of her life as a virtual prisoner in forced isolation, adding to the three years from her first stint on North Brother Island. Although hundreds, if not thousands, of asymptomatic carriers who had been identified walked the sidewalks of New York freely, Typhoid Mary alone lived in exile in large part due to the public opinion that turned firmly against her after her failure to stay out of the kitchen. She was fated to cook only for herself until her death on November 11, 1938.


So was this "constitutional"?
 
Guys... Cowboy up!
Go to all the bars, restaurants, beaches, airplanes... any enclosed space you like, wear no masks, Hell go buck Naked!... and if you suffer no ill effects... cool
If you die... I'll nominate you for a Darwin!
And if you get sick, stay the hell home and don't put our front-line medical staff at risk.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
...
Typhoid Mary aka Mary Mallon.
...
So was this "constitutional"?
A cursory reading of her story doesn't get into what level of due process she received. The first time she was confined:

Under sections 1169 and 1170 of the Greater New York Charter, she was arrested as a public health threat. Under questioning, she admitted that she almost never washed her hands.[R]​

It doesn't seem likely the Supreme Court weighed in on these statutes. In any case, her behavior was pretty egregious; they released her in 1910 after she promised to protect others, but she returned to her old ways—being a cook with poor hygiene—sickening many more and killing some.

After arresting her, public health authorities returned her to quarantine on North Brother Island on March 27, 1915.

Even if she didn't get proper legal due process at the time, it seems as though the state had more than enough evidence to prove the danger she presented. Her second arrest was even more clear-cut. She was certainly guilty of some flavor of manslaughter.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
A cursory reading of her story doesn't get into what level of due process she received. The first time she was confined:

Under sections 1169 and 1170 of the Greater New York Charter, she was arrested as a public health threat. Under questioning, she admitted that she almost never washed her hands.[R]​

It doesn't seem likely the Supreme Court weighed in on these statutes. In any case, her behavior was pretty egregious; they released her in 1910 after she promised to protect others, but she returned to her old ways—being a cook with poor hygiene—sickening many more and killing some.

After arresting her, public health authorities returned her to quarantine on North Brother Island on March 27, 1915.

Even if she didn't get proper legal due process at the time, it seems as though the state had more than enough evidence to prove the danger she presented. Her second arrest was even more clear-cut. She was certainly guilty of some flavor of manslaughter.
The story I read said she did sue the health department and New York Supreme Court denied her petition.

Based on Soper’s sleuthing, the New York City Health Department took Mallon into custody in 1907 and placed her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16-acre North Brother Island, off the Bronx shoreline, with only a fox terrier as a companion. “I never had typhoid in my life and have always been healthy,” Mallon wrote. “Why should I be banished like a leper and compelled to live in solitary confinement with only a dog for a companion?” Armed with test results from a private laboratory that came up negative, Mallon in 1909 sued the health department for her freedom, but the New York Supreme Court denied her petition. Where did Mallon get the money to hire a lawyer and pay the legal bills? Leavitt says speculation has fallen on newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst, who “had done so for other people whose stories interested his newspaper’s readers.” In 1910, new health commissioner Ernst Lederle agreed to release Mallon if she pledged never to work as a cook again.

I agree, the state did have more than enough evidence to prove the danger she presented.

But the danger she represented was being asymptomatic and ignoring the health of others. (Despite the fact that hundreds of other asymptomatic carriers had been identified, she behaved in a way that ignored the health of society.

Which seems to be the principal we had been debating, can the US government limit your freedom if you are acting in a way to endanger the health of others even though it's not spelled out in the constitution or are there any laws I am aware of that she broke.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
...
Which seems to be the principal we had been debating, can the US government limit your freedom if you are acting in a way to endanger the health of others even though it's not spelled out in the constitution or are there any laws I am aware of that she broke.
The way I understand it, the government cannot issue a blanket denial of constitutional rights. It must instead use due process on an individual basis to prove that the someone is endangering the rights of others. A case such as Mary Mallon's is then pretty straightforward. But a blanket denial of the right to assemble is almost certainly not going to fly.
 

Tony Dco

New Member
I went to the emergency room Feb 12 from abnormal heart rhythm , I have heart disease. I also had a initial flu test that came back negative. I was given another flu test that took 3 days for the result and it was positive, but i was not treated for the flu. I was having heart issues. I had no lung congestion, cough, sweating, only a temp of 101 for 2-3 days. I recently asked my doctor if I had Clovid and he said back then they didn't even know about it. I believe the reason why my flu was so mild is because of my VD3 level.

Anyway, I am a strong believer in hydroxychloroquine. There are many doctors that have used hydroxy successfully, even in severe cases. Patients improve in several hours. I read the NIH is finally going to study hydroxy and z-pad.

Two things to mention, first is VD3. Dr. Mercola published an article on the benefit of VD3 against Clovid. VD3 also protects against, or at least makes milder case of colds, flu's, infections, cancer, etc. What's nice VD3 works similar to hydroxy; it increases the "adaptive" immune response and reduces the deadly "cytokine storm". A minimum of 30ng/ml for good benefit. Mine is 60, my wife is 80. Optimal is about 60-80ng/dl, imo.

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They claim 99% of the virus enters the nose. Dr. Mercola recommends an inexpensive nebulizer and to use 3% H2O2 to kill and viruses. Dr. Axe recommends using a high quality colloidal silver product. Ionic silver is good for surface disinfectant, while particle silver with a high particle surface area is the best. Most of the silver sold is only effective on surfaces from what I've learned.

I will be using the CS because it can kill more pathogens than H2O2. if I begin to have any flu/cold/Clovid symptoms, I will use the nebulizer w/CS for about 10-15 minutes and 3x per day inhaling 2/3 through the nasal passages, 1/3 through the mouth.

 

PStephen

New Member
Again, you are the typical sheep to question nobody. And you are the enemy (part of the problem) as you have no issue falling in line with a system of control. Because one day, you'll have no problem turning on the rest of us for not doing so.

A Covid-19 particle size averages 0.125 microns. You would need an electron microscope to see a virus particle. A N95 mask filters it down to 0.3 microns. N95 masks block few, if any virions (virus particles). It's a simple fact which you can't argue against. Surgical masks, cloth masks, homemade masks:

1.) allow fee passage both ways (in and out) for Covid 19 virions
2.) become warm/damp/moist reservoir of Covid 19 particles in asymptomatic carriers

For surgeons, from years of training and intimidation, are taught to touch NOTHING but their surgical field. Lay people constantly touch, re-arrange, and manipulate their "masks" all the while inoculating thousands of virus particles onto their bare or (even worse, gloved) hands.

Therefore, these absurd masks ENCOURAGE the fomite transmission ("infected" articles-to-hand-to face transmission of the virus).

So, go ahead and allow idiots to delude and mislead you to the false sense of security and danger of masks!
Again, you are the typical sheep to question nobody. And you are the enemy (part of the problem) as you have no issue falling in line with a system of control. Because one day, you'll have no problem turning on the rest of us for not doing so.

A Covid-19 particle size averages 0.125 microns. You would need an electron microscope to see a virus particle. A N95 mask filters it down to 0.3 microns. N95 masks block few, if any virions (virus particles). It's a simple fact which you can't argue against. Surgical masks, cloth masks, homemade masks:

1.) allow fee passage both ways (in and out) for Covid 19 virions
2.) become warm/damp/moist reservoir of Covid 19 particles in asymptomatic carriers

For surgeons, from years of training and intimidation, are taught to touch NOTHING but their surgical field. Lay people constantly touch, re-arrange, and manipulate their "masks" all the while inoculating thousands of virus particles onto their bare or (even worse, gloved) hands.

Therefore, these absurd masks ENCOURAGE the fomite transmission ("infected" articles-to-hand-to face transmission of the virus).

So, go ahead and allow idiots to delude and mislead you to the false sense of security and danger of masks!
You’re reciting a bunch of shit someone told you on the internet
 
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