Fish Oil Hype

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FunkOdyssey

Well-Known Member
A very instructive article on the evolution of the fish oil health claims (it's now a drug), which illustrates the contemporary quackery in the supplement industry:


Fish Oil Is Good! No, Bad! No, Good! No, Wait

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about in the Vitamin D thread. After you have been through enough of these cycles you start build a measure of immunity. Someone brought up David Sinclair on another thread -- don't get me started about him and resveratrol.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about in the Vitamin D thread. After you have been through enough of these cycles you start build a measure of immunity. Someone brought up David Sinclair on another thread -- don't get me started about him and resveratrol.
i wrote a few articles for Dr. Barrett's Quack Watch beck in the 90's. I have been fighting supplement quackery for a long time. The hard part of this is it is honestly a buyer beware game. You either fall for the hype and waste your money on a hope and a dream or you educate your self and read ever research study that come out about the supplement before you even consider using it. Yea, I have wasted money too. I have seen some recent television adds on Omega 3 that sure fall into the hope and a dream category, I also know enough about Omega 3 that I am not going to give them my money. When you use celebrities to advertise your product I promise you are just ripping people off. I just make it a point to NEVER buy anything I see advertised on TV. I am certainly not familiar with David Sinclair, so I have yet to form an opinion.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
So what do you think about omega index? Or omega3/omega6 ratio?
The western diet is currently about 16:1, Omega 6 to Omega 3. In fact, The average American now consumes 9% of their energy in the form of omega 6 fats. Toxicity levels begin at 4% We are taking in WAY too much Omega 6 in our diet, a ratio of 4:1 is much healthier. We have pushed very hard since the 70's to stay away from saturated fats and use more vegetable oils. So we take in way too many more inflammatory Omega 6s.

Now, do we necessarily need to take supplements to balance the ratio? Absolutely not, this can be done with changes in the diet. Here is a graphic to show where the push for seed and vegetable based oils started. Carbohydrates also increase at the same time and same rate
oil.JPG

Here is a decent article on the subject. The only problem I have is the author put in citations but there are no referenced.

 

Vince

Super Moderator
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Thanks for reposting those studies Vince. The last time I was at the eye doctor she asked me if I was taking Omer 3 supplements. Here is a good article on that subject that may be of some importance to us old guys


More

 

sammmy

Active Member
One should not make projections from old mice studies when evaluating supplements.

In a human intervention study, Omega-3 failed to reduce the progression to late age-related macular degeneration (AMD) (hazard ratio close to 1 i.e. no effect), while Lutein/zeaxanthin had a moderate reduction of the risk (hazard ratio 0.91). Supplementing with beta-carotene (believed to also improve eye health) lead to higher rates of lung cancer in smokers:


Long-term Outcomes of Adding Lutein/Zeaxanthin and ω-3 Fatty Acids to the AREDS Supplements on Age-Related Macular Degeneration ProgressionAREDS2 Report 28

That is why, if you search for the current AREDS 2 supplement for eyes, they do NOT contain omega-3. They sell a couple on Amazon and some formulas have an insane amount of zinc in them, leading to diarrhea in some people.
 

sammmy

Active Member
The explanation why an antioxidant like beta-carotene may lead to higher cancer rates is that when you overdose it (like they often do in supplements) it may suppress the immune system. Many antioxidants are anti-inflammatory i.e. immune suppressing.

The lutein/zeaxanthin in the above study are also concerning in that aspect. Of course they were severely overdosed and they increased the Odds Ratio of having lung cancer to 1.15. That means that at those MEGA doses, either lutein/zeaxanthin increased the probability of lung cancer by 15% on average, OR they didn't and it was just a statistical fluctuation. The study did not have enough participants (enough statistical power) to decide which case it is.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
One should not make projections from old mice studies when evaluating supplements.

In a human intervention study, Omega-3 failed to reduce the progression to late age-related macular degeneration (AMD) (hazard ratio close to 1 i.e. no effect), while Lutein/zeaxanthin had a moderate reduction of the risk (hazard ratio 0.91). Supplementing with beta-carotene (believed to also improve eye health) lead to higher rates of lung cancer in smokers:


Long-term Outcomes of Adding Lutein/Zeaxanthin and ω-3 Fatty Acids to the AREDS Supplements on Age-Related Macular Degeneration ProgressionAREDS2 Report 28

That is why, if you search for the current AREDS 2 supplement for eyes, they do NOT contain omega-3. They sell a couple on Amazon and some formulas have an

I am interested in seeing your critique on all of the studies Vince posted. Maybe this can all be used to start an FDA investigation into those selling Omega 3? Selling a supplement claiming it cures a medical disease is a violation of the law. Possibly Harvard, and NIIH can be included.
 

sammmy

Active Member
The best is to consume natural non-processed sources of omega-3, because your body has adapted to these forms for thousands of years. Contemporary medicine is just too weak to form conclusions about particular components of fish, fish oil, omega-3 etc.

Studies of "fish oil" concentrates/extracts are largely inconclusive and often contradict each other. Another problem is that "fish oil" supplements are not standardized and are of different origin with possibly different effects.

A balanced review, although it misses some aspects (such as omega-3 can reduce blood pressure):

Fish Oil - Sloan Kettering Cancer Center
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Most science we have is largely inconclusive. The more we learn the more we see how little we know. Take saturated fatty acids and coffee for instance. Anyway, good comments.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
I wanted to let you guys see that there are people who are fighting the fraud in the supplement industry. While there is some very good research available, the industry is loaded with fraud. The Omega 3 business is just one of them. While there is some very strong evidence that Omega 3 is beneficial, it is a shame the frauds in the supplement industry are getting away with scamming people.


Here is a Omega 3 company that I have filed a complaint to the FDA over


If you notice this letter was in 2021, they had 15 days to show what they had done to correct this violation. To date, they have continued violating the law.
 

Seth

Active Member
The western diet is currently about 16:1, Omega 6 to Omega 3. In fact, The average American now consumes 9% of their energy in the form of omega 6 fats. Toxicity levels begin at 4% We are taking in WAY too much Omega 6 in our diet, a ratio of 4:1 is much healthier. We have pushed very hard since the 70's to stay away from saturated fats and use more vegetable oils. So we take in way too many more inflammatory Omega 6s.

Now, do we necessarily need to take supplements to balance the ratio? Absolutely not, this can be done with changes in the diet. Here is a graphic to show where the push for seed and vegetable based oils started. Carbohydrates also increase at the same time and same rate
View attachment 24529
Here is a decent article on the subject. The only problem I have is the author put in citations but there are no referenced.

No wonder people are so confused. Not only are we being given bad information, but it constantly changes. I remember when they said not to use butter, that butter was BAD! That we should instead use margarine. Turns out, butter is way better.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Research is not absolute. It is just data found when investigating a theory. If the theory is supported, then further research is needed to test the data. The big problem is in the supplement industry they may take 1 study and use it to prove their product works when the study really never gave that answer. I saw one study that found Omega3 worked to stop pain in knee Osteoarthritis. The rest of the research did not find that and in fact, found it ineffective. Yet the supplement industry ran with that study. Observationally I have osteoarthritis in the knee and it absolutely has not worked whit me. Yet I still see that advertised.

Yes research constantly changes as we upgrade our knowledge. We know a lot about the functions in the human body, yet know so little. The worst part about the supplement industry is there are a whole lot of scammers out there and the FDA does little to prevent it from happening.
 

Vtail

Active Member
Yes research constantly changes as we upgrade our knowledge. We know a lot about the functions in the human body, yet know so little. The worst part about the supplement industry is there are a whole lot of scammers out there and the FDA does little to prevent it from happening.

Sometimes I think the FDA is the biggest scammer of them all.
 

Guided_by_Voices

Well-Known Member
It's worth noting that Omega 6 and 3 "compete" for entry into the cell and an excess of omega 6 will reduce omega 3 by this mechanism. Hence, step one in increasing omega 3 is to reduce omega 6. Any studies that looked at omega 3 supplementation without minimizing omega 6 intake are likely invalid for this reason. There is a company called Omegaquant (no affiliation) that offers fairly inexpensive testing of omega 3 levels.
 

Belekas

Active Member
It's worth noting that Omega 6 and 3 "compete" for entry into the cell and an excess of omega 6 will reduce omega 3 by this mechanism. Hence, step one in increasing omega 3 is to reduce omega 6. Any studies that looked at omega 3 supplementation without minimizing omega 6 intake are likely invalid for this reason. There is a company called Omegaquant (no affiliation) that offers fairly inexpensive testing of omega 3 levels.
Thats the company that Dr Rhonda Patrick recommended on Joe Rogan podcast. I've been also looking at these tests as they are available in the UK as well.
 
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