When adding nandrolone you should reduce T dose. Why did you add nandrolone? What were you hoping to achieve give your lab values?
Would u be able to post ur before and after protocols and labs?
No doubt about it. I just wasn’t expecting such a major change. Most users here only experience a couple of points increase in HCT after adding nandrolone
I agree. Different tests were used. Not sure why but i checked the lab RX and these were the tests requested (even had the test number). I guess the test that is influenced by nandrolone might be warranted because then you can at least have a measure of change in hormones? Not sure.Nandrolone has a very low affinity for SHBG, about 5% of that of T and 1% of that of DHT.
If anything nandrolone has a stronger binding affinity to the AR and can displace T.
What seems odd on 1st set labs (T+ND) that you did not test TT (LC/MS-MS) as you stated (are you sure?) because FT looks to have been tested using one of the most accurate assays Equilibrium Ultrafiltration judging by the reference range you posted 5-21.
This is the same reference range (5.00-21.00 ng/dL) used on Labcorps FT (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) assay with TT (LC/MS-MS).
View attachment 13229070038: Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone, LC/MS-MS | Labcorp
Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone, LC/MS-MSwww.labcorp.com
To top it off that if this was the case then it is pointless to try to even compare FT results on the 1st set of labs (T+ND protocol) with FT results on the 2nd set of labs (T only protocol) because FT was tested using the piss poor direct immunoassay judging by the reference range you posted 8.7-25.1.
This is the same reference range (8.7-25.1 pg/mL) used on Labcorps FT Direct analog enzyme immunoassay (EIA).
View attachment 13230
Now the s**t kicker here is if your 1st set of labs (T+ND) was tested using the most accurate assays for TT/FT then you should not get an inflated result when using nandrolone.
Keep in mind that even on a T only protocol with a TT 1500 ng/dL one could easily have an absurdly high FT (accurate assays) not too far off from the results you posted in the first set of labs (if your TT/FT was tested using the most accurate assays).
To me judging by the reference range 5-21 posted in your 1st set of labs your FT was done by Equilibrium Ultrafiltration which would mean TT was LC/MS-MS.
Great information! Thanks a lot.081786: Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone | Labcorp
Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone
Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone
TEST: 081786
Methodology
Free: equilibrium ultrafiltration; total: electrochemiluminescence immunoassay (ECLIA)
Elecsys Testosterone II cobas®
English
System information
For cobas e 411 analyzer: test number 111 For MODULAR ANALYTICS E170, cobas e 601 and cobas e 602 analyzers: Application Code Number 216
Intended use
Immunoassay for the in vitro quantitative determination of testosterone in human serum and plasma.
The electrochemiluminescence immunoassay “ECLIA” is intended for use on Elecsys and cobas e immunoassay analyzers.
Limitations - interference
The assay is unaffected by icterus (bilirubin < 513 µmol/L or < 30 mg/dL), hemolysis (Hb < 0.372 mmol/L or < 0.600 g/dL), lipemia (Intralipid < 1000 mg/dL) and biotin (< 123 nmol/L or < 30 ng/mL).
Criterion: Recovery within ± 10 % of initial value (concentration range > 1‑15 ng/mL), recovery within ± 15 % of initial value (concentration range > 0.5‑1 ng/mL) and recovery of ± 0.075 ng/mL (concentration range of 0.150‑0.500 ng/mL).
Samples should not be taken from patients receiving therapy with high biotin doses (i.e. > 5 mg/day) until at least 8 hours following the last biotin administration.
No interference was observed from rheumatoid factors up to a concentration of 1000 IU/mL.
In vitro tests were performed on 18 commonly used pharmaceuticals. No interference with the assay was found.
Two special drugs were additionally tested. Strong interaction with Nandrolone (INN international nonproprietary name, WHO) was found. Do not use samples from patients under Nandrolone treatment.
In isolated cases, elevated testosterone levels can be seen in samples from female patients with end-stage renal disease (ESRD).
Implausible elevated testosterone values in women should be verified by an extraction method or a validated LC‑MS/MS tandem method.5
In rare cases, interference due to extremely high titers of antibodies to analyte‑specific antibodies, streptavidin, or ruthenium can occur. These effects are minimized by a suitable test design.
For diagnostic purposes, the results should always be assessed in conjunction with the patient’s medical history, clinical examination, and other findings.
Not to hijack but my body produces red blood cells like crazy. So is FT what your body responds to when producing red blood cells or is it TT? My SHBG is around 50 so I need to drive my TT up around 1000 to get even a mid range FT. Then my RBC goes into overdrive. Pretty frustrating.
Free testosterone is going to be the more important parameter. If you're relying on the standard free T test then you should abandon it immediately—it is not accurate. Use the calculators or else spring for equilibrium dialysis. According to the calculators, even with an SHBG of 50 nMol/L you do not need such high testosterone to get to mid-range free T. More like 700-850 ng/dL would be fine.
