Daily Testosterone Injection?

[saberx]

Hello Everyone,

I'm excited to be part of this forum.

A little history:

I had been using "steroids" in sports for many years. About six years ago I met someone and decided that I wanted to get off of everything, so I tampered off and went clean for a year. No PCT. Of course, I felt like crap for the year, so finally went to a doctor and they diagnose me with low testosterone. At that point they gave me the option to get on testosterone injection or gel, but I refused and said that I wanted to wait, at least, another six months. During the six months I took anything natural I could to help kick start my testosterone including tribulus and many other herbal tinctures, but six months later I still felt horrible and very depressed. It ruined and ultimately ended my relationship, so I went back to see the doctor and surely enough my test levels were still very low (in the bottom quarter of the range). I was then refereed to an endocrinologist.

The endocrinologist ran more tests and determined that everything other than my testosterone and estradiol levels were in normal range. He said that normal protocol was that if testosterone was at the bottom of the range it would need to be supplemented. So, he put me on 100mg of enanthate once a week and I started to feel better. After about 2 months I mentioned that it felt like my testicles were getting smaller. He put me on hcg at some ridiculous high dose, which I had reduced after reading some posts online. I had been seeing this endo for over 4 year and then one day i get a call from my pharmacy and they were told that this doctor will not see anymore patients for TRT! I was shocked. Couldn't believe that a doctor would just abandon a long term patient. Very unprofessional in my opinion. I asked what the reason was and they told me that it was because I hadn't been in to see him for over a year, but during my last visit I questioned he about scheduling regular 6 month visits in advance and he told me there was no need. As long I continued the same routine everything would be fine. I later discovered that what he said was incorrect by my present doctor/naturopath.

My current doctor/naturopath is an anti-aging doctor. By the time I had discovered this doctor I had altered my injection routine at least a half dozen time trying everything from weekly injection to twice a week to every other day, but couldn't seem to get it right. During my first visit with this doctor/naturopath, I told him that I had been injecting 40mg test 3 times a week and 120iu HCG every other day. He said that it was fine and ran some other test and a 24 urine test. My results were that everything seemed in range, but he felt that my HGH was a little low so I was prescribed 1iu every day (injection pen). Anyways, a year later this is what my current protocol looks like:

20mg Cypionate mixed with 50iu HCG - 6 days a week monday to saturday (insulin needle)
1iu of HGH (injection pen) - every other day
25mg DHEA - 7 days a week
7.5mcgs of T3 - 7 days a week in morning on empty stomach


I have arimidex on hand if needed, but currently not in my protocol.


Prior to starting this latest protocol

I was using 60mg of Cypionate twice a week, 150iu HCG twice a week, 1iu of HGH 7 days a week and 50 mg of DHEA every day and after getting tested all my levels were perfect, but I had very sensitive nipples (couldn't even tough then) and lumps under both nipples. Also, was getting a thicker waistline and outgrew all of my pants. All of these effects happened within a very short period. Prior to this I was lean and vascular. Something went wrong. I told my doctor/naturopath and suspected that it might be a pituitary glad issue causing the gyno and I got tested. My pituitary glad level was within range. Neither of us really knew what was going on. I had mentioned that I once tried DHEA many years ago and felt really good, so out of curiosity he tested my DHEA levels and that came back at almost zero (0), but I was told that trt can drop DHEA levels which is why I take it.

So i changed to my current protocol thinking that it might help, but I still have sensitive nipples and lump. Nothing has gotten better.

I have not gotten tested on my current cycle, but I have noticed a couple of things:

1. I loose my temper faster
2. While psychologically worse (i think), my physical ability to get an erection is more normal.
3. With regards to DHEA, I definitely feel better on 50 mg daily as opposed to 25 mg daily, but have lowered it because of sore nipples/gyno?


I know that the daily cypionate injection protocol is kind of crazy, but i'm at my wits end and really don't know how to make everything work in harmony.

My friends, what I am looking for is to have energy to workout, have a normal sex drive, be in good spirits most of the time stay lean. I do not care about being overly muscular or "ripped". Much like the majority of you, I just want to feel great and look good. I apologize for rambling on, but i'm very frustrated. So, if anyone can help me out with any of this, it would be greatly appreciated.


Stats:

Male
41 years old
Approx: 230 lbs (have gained about 15 to 20 pounds since last may) NOT muscle!
6'1" height
workout 3 - 4 times a week if possible (combination of weights and cardio)

 

[eli]

blood work mate ? The most important part of TRT is blood work

take ONLY .25mg of Arimidex and see if you feel a bit better. Hard to tell without blood work but I suspect your E2 to be high

 

[saberx]

Hello Eli,

These are the last test numbers I have from Feb 1/2016

Gamma GT 10 < 49 U/L
ALT 31 < 50 U/L
AST 20 < 36 U/L

Thyroid Function
TSH 1.21
(0.30 - 5.50mU/L)

T4 Free 14
(11 - 22 pmol/L)

Estradiol 107
(95 - 223 pmol/L)
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

DHEA Sulphate 12
(2 - 12 umol/L)
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

Testosterone 18.9
(8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L)
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

Progesterone 3.6nmol/L
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)
(Less than 3.8) Prepubertal
(0.7 - 4.3) Adult


- Specimen Drawn 0935h


****NOTE: Haven't gotten any tests done since switching to daily test and HCG injections as of yet, but planning on going soon.

---------------
Has anyone ever tried daily test injections? what were the results?

I remember Dr. Crisler mentioned in a Youtube© video that 100mg of test once a week is like injecting 40mg twice a week. It made me think that maybe daily test injections should be much lower and not the equivalent of what the weekly dose is (mine is 120mg)? Maybe it builds up too fast in the system, being that it is such a long ester. Maybe the shots "overlap"? I really don't know, just my theory.

Anyways, thanks again for any help. I've spent years trying to get away from it, but it seems that being a mad scientist experimenting with my body continues. Oh well, back to the lab.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I have injected 16mg every morning since July. Steady-state levels of testosterone, mid 900s with no AI (estradiol 27-29). Feel great, would not change.

 

[saberx]

Hi CoastWatcher,

Thank for the feedback.

So happy to hear that at least someone else is doing daily shots.

Besides daily morning test injections, what does the rest of your protocol look like? Are you using anything else like HCG, DHEA, HGH, Preg, Anastrozole, etc. with it and are your injection IM or SubQ?

Also, what type of diet are you following: Vegan, Paleo, etc....?

-------------

Something that I didn't quite go into detail about in my original post was DHEA. I was originally put on 100mg daily of compounded DHEA. Felt great at first, but it didn't take long before I notice nipple sensitivity and feelings of rage. I change the 100mg daily to 100mg EOD and I felt better, but kind of up and down moods. When I told my Doctor/naturopath that I was taking 100mg EOD he told me that it was useless because DHEA's half life is so short that on the days off i would drop back down to almost nothing, so he recommended 50mg daily. At the 50mg daily dose I felt better, but still worried about my sensitive nipples, so I dropped it and currently use 25mg daily. It's funny because a part of me wonders if I would have been fine with just DHEA and nothing else. I say this because in my past I always felt the best and most sexual when using DHT substances like stanazolol, dianabol, etc.

On a side note, if I feel like using Viagra, I need to take an entire 100mg pill. In the past with just DHT substances I only need to use 1/4 to get the same effect.

 

[BlatantDisregard]

I started daily subq injections in February. I take 25mg testosterone and 150 iu of Hcg every morning and then a shot of sermorelin every night. So far I'm feeling better and haven't done labs since starting that protocol. I tried daily because of low shbg. Not a fan of so many sticks but seems to be the best so far.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Hi CoastWatcher,

Thank for the feedback.

So happy to hear that at least someone else is doing daily shots.

Besides daily morning test injections, what does the rest of your protocol look like? Are you using anything else like HCG, DHEA, HGH, Preg, Anastrozole, etc. with it and are your injection IM or SubQ?

Also, what type of diet are you following: Vegan, Paleo...

I inject 16mg of testosterone enanthate daily. HCG is injected every 3.5 days, 250. I have never used Anastrozole. My E2 had begun climbing, and my doctor and I both, correctly, believed daily injections would work to settle those levels back into a reasonable place. Injections are sub q or shallow IM as I try and take advantage of as much territory as possible.

I currently (always subject to adjustment) supplement with CoQ10 and Vitamin D3. I take 5mg of Cialis morning and evening.

 

[Henry]

I've got a question. Wouldn't testosterone propinate be a better choice for daily use since enanthate or cypionate are longer acting esters?

Does it make a difference using a long acting ester in such a short timeframe? Are there any drawbacks?

Thanks

 

[CoastWatcher]

I've got a question. Wouldn't testosterone propinate be a better choice for daily use since enanthate or cypionate are longer acting esters?

Does it make a difference using a long acting ester in such a short timeframe? Are there any drawbacks?

Thanks

There are clincial reports that men who inject propionate complain of significant discomfort related to the injection (Nelson references this in his book). If you are injecting frequently, pain is something to be minimized. After nine months, and four lab draws, I am very pleased.

 

[Henry]

There are clincial reports that men who inject propionate complain of significant discomfort related to the injection (Nelson references this in his book). If you are injecting frequently, pain is something to be minimized. After nine months, and four lab draws, I am very pleased.

Do you have to worry about scarring?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Do you have to worry about scarring?

Roughly 300 daily injections since the daily protocol was adopted, and I have no scarring. I had my annual skin inspection last week, family history of skin cancer means a head-to-to skin examination by my dermatologist, and I specifically asked her to look closely. She said she only fresh needle marks, no scars.

 

[Helboi]

I inject 16mg of testosterone enanthate daily. HCG is injected every 3.5 days, 250. I have never used Anastrozole. My E2 had begun climbing, and my doctor and I both, correctly, believed daily injections would work to settle those levels back into a reasonable place. Injections are sub q or shallow IM as I try and take advantage of as much territory as possible.

This might be my case in the near future as well. Started out over a year ago with weekly injections at the docs, then went to weekly at home, then to every 3.5 days, now every other day. I feel great, but my E2 is rising and I really, really don't want to take an AI, so maybe this is the ticket for me (might also help tamp down my hematocrit issues too).

 

[CoastWatcher]

This might be my case in the near future as well. Started out over a year ago with weekly injections at the docs, then went to weekly at home, then to every 3.5 days, now every other day. I feel great, but my E2 is rising and I really, really don't want to take an AI, so maybe this is the ticket for me (might also help tamp down my hematocrit issues too).

Save the hematocrit issue, you are in a position very similar to my own a year ago. Anastrozole is an excellent drug, one needed by many men during the course of their androgen therapy. I wanted to do all I could, however, to avoid adding yet another element to my protocol. One more value to monitor - not unless I had to. It turns out, I didn't.

If daily injections are where you're headed, the first weeks, perhaps the first month, will be an adjustment. Some days you'll feel great, some days you will swear your headed for serious hypogonadism. Be patient. In my case it was estradiol dropping (more than a few days/evenings of sweating), and my body adjusting to true, steady-state testosterone levels. Don't change a thing during this period, and don't test, until six weeks have passed. Give it time.

 

[Helboi]

If daily injections are where you're headed, the first weeks, perhaps the first month, will be an adjustment. Some days you'll feel great, some days you will swear your headed for serious hypogonadism. Be patient. In my case it was estradiol dropping (more than a few days/evenings of sweating), and my body adjusting to true, steady-state testosterone levels. Don't change a thing during this period, and don't test, until six weeks have passed. Give it time.

Thanks for the advice. For me, each step toward more frequent injections has been a stabilizing positive. I feel especially stable since going on EOD injections (my mood is the big indicator for me and the #1 reason I'm on TRT). Have a consult with Dr. Saya today, so we'll know more where things are headed later this afternoon.

 

[Vince]

I'm happy I don't need to inject daily, I guess the main reason is I've never had any problem with estrogen. Injecting every 3 1/2 days keeps my testosterone levels in a good range.

 

[MikeXL]

Do you inject that sub q or IM?

 

[Helboi]

Do you inject that sub q or IM?

Not sure who you're asking, but if it's me I do mine IM. Tried SubQ for about 2 months (when I was doing every 3.5d injections) and I didn't like it.

 

[Vince]

Do you inject that sub q or IM?

I injected shallow IM, with half inch 27 gauge syringe Easy Touch. Always in my shoulders.

 

[JQ88]

Helboi,

Did you end up going daily? If so, how's it going?

-Jeff

 

[Vince Carter]

Im working on whether DHEA was causing my E problems, once I get past that, I'm pretty close to going from EOD to daily Cyp.