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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
TRT side effect help
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<blockquote data-quote="Blackhawk" data-source="post: 249300" data-attributes="member: 16042"><p>OK, here we go.</p><p></p><p>I don't refute your personal experience and I understand how you came by this belief based to your own N=1 anecdotal experience, and similar stories from others. I won't go into the argument over why this does not constitute proof unless you really want. I will stick with the technical side of it.</p><p></p><p>I still think you are conflating "the testosterone", testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate and testosterone cream as being the same thing. They are not.</p><p></p><p>And I will say I have been wrong about things before, so if you want to debate, I am all ears. I will eat my humble pie if you show me technically how and why I am wrong.</p><p></p><p>Are you not referring to taking testosterone via a product? You said you have taken testosterone enanthate, cypionate and topical (cream). You have not taken pure testosterone, correct? It is not the same as the products themselves, but it comes from those products</p><p></p><p>T enanthate and cypionate are esterified forms of testosterone, but those bound forms are not used where the rubber hits the road at your cell receptors. They are useless without the testosterone molecule being freed by esterase enzyme.</p><p></p><p>These esterified forms are put into a carrier oil for injection, and benzyl alcohol added which is an antimicrobial that prevents the growth of microbes that could cause infection. Reactions to these substances are known causes of allergic type reactions.</p><p></p><p>And creams,, the most common side effects are skin reactions: <a href="https://www.healthline.com/health/testosterone-cream-side-effects#side-effects" target="_blank">Side Effects of Topical Testosterone Cream</a></p><p></p><p>"The most common side effects of topical testosterone are skin reactions. Because you apply topical testosterone directly to your skin, you may develop a reaction at the application site. Symptoms can include:</p><p>burning</p><p>blistering</p><p>itching</p><p>soreness</p><p>swelling</p><p>redness</p><p>rash</p><p>dry skin</p><p>acne"</p><p></p><p>You have not ruled out that you are reacting to carrier oils, benzyl alcohol, and the cream base and additives in the topicals.</p><p></p><p>I guarantee it is not the testosterone molecule causing an allergy. And here is why: If you were allergic to that molecule you would always be having allergic reactions. A bazzillion of those are in your blood all the time... unless your blood tests show ZERO. So, when you are not taking testosterone products, is your blood level of testosterone actually ZERO?</p><p></p><p>Let's look at how many of those molecules that you say you are allergic to are there in your blood if you are NOT taking exogenous testosterone. I don't know how hypogonadal you are but let's say your Total Testosterone is 250ng/dl. I'll spare you the calculations, but for an average sized male with 5 liters of blood this would be 31,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of testosterone in your blood stream. I may be off by one zero from transcribing the scientific notation, but I did actually run the numbers.</p><p></p><p>If you are allergic, why would you not have any reaction with 31 sextillion testosterone molecules in your blood?</p><p></p><p>The pure testosterone molecule that you benefit from with TRT is the same molecule... identical to the molecule that your own testicles produce. There is no difference. The differences are in the products themselves. The difference is that the way we take testosterone is not as the pure substance, that was explained above.</p><p></p><p>I actually hope that this information might help you find a solution like finding you are allergic to cottonseed oil, but actually can take grapeseed oil, and/or that there is an ingredient in the cream you used that caused a reaction, but a different cream or gel is fine.</p><p></p><p>Best to you!</p><p></p><p>EDIT: ADDENDUM: Another thought, entirely speculative. Testosterone prioprionate, a short ester can cause local inflammation and pain as the esters are being cleaved of rapidly. This is not an allergic response but is inflammatory. So my question is, when enanthate and cypionate esters are cleaved off, can that reaction is some people cause immune system response. And then, the esters have to go somewhere or be broken down into smaller parts to either combine and be used by the body or eliminated. Could these byproducts cause immune response in some people? Seems unikey as they are just carbon chains, not any kind of actual protein.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blackhawk, post: 249300, member: 16042"] OK, here we go. I don't refute your personal experience and I understand how you came by this belief based to your own N=1 anecdotal experience, and similar stories from others. I won't go into the argument over why this does not constitute proof unless you really want. I will stick with the technical side of it. I still think you are conflating "the testosterone", testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate and testosterone cream as being the same thing. They are not. And I will say I have been wrong about things before, so if you want to debate, I am all ears. I will eat my humble pie if you show me technically how and why I am wrong. Are you not referring to taking testosterone via a product? You said you have taken testosterone enanthate, cypionate and topical (cream). You have not taken pure testosterone, correct? It is not the same as the products themselves, but it comes from those products T enanthate and cypionate are esterified forms of testosterone, but those bound forms are not used where the rubber hits the road at your cell receptors. They are useless without the testosterone molecule being freed by esterase enzyme. These esterified forms are put into a carrier oil for injection, and benzyl alcohol added which is an antimicrobial that prevents the growth of microbes that could cause infection. Reactions to these substances are known causes of allergic type reactions. And creams,, the most common side effects are skin reactions: [URL='https://www.healthline.com/health/testosterone-cream-side-effects#side-effects']Side Effects of Topical Testosterone Cream[/URL] "The most common side effects of topical testosterone are skin reactions. Because you apply topical testosterone directly to your skin, you may develop a reaction at the application site. Symptoms can include: burning blistering itching soreness swelling redness rash dry skin acne" You have not ruled out that you are reacting to carrier oils, benzyl alcohol, and the cream base and additives in the topicals. I guarantee it is not the testosterone molecule causing an allergy. And here is why: If you were allergic to that molecule you would always be having allergic reactions. A bazzillion of those are in your blood all the time... unless your blood tests show ZERO. So, when you are not taking testosterone products, is your blood level of testosterone actually ZERO? Let's look at how many of those molecules that you say you are allergic to are there in your blood if you are NOT taking exogenous testosterone. I don't know how hypogonadal you are but let's say your Total Testosterone is 250ng/dl. I'll spare you the calculations, but for an average sized male with 5 liters of blood this would be 31,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of testosterone in your blood stream. I may be off by one zero from transcribing the scientific notation, but I did actually run the numbers. If you are allergic, why would you not have any reaction with 31 sextillion testosterone molecules in your blood? The pure testosterone molecule that you benefit from with TRT is the same molecule... identical to the molecule that your own testicles produce. There is no difference. The differences are in the products themselves. The difference is that the way we take testosterone is not as the pure substance, that was explained above. I actually hope that this information might help you find a solution like finding you are allergic to cottonseed oil, but actually can take grapeseed oil, and/or that there is an ingredient in the cream you used that caused a reaction, but a different cream or gel is fine. Best to you! EDIT: ADDENDUM: Another thought, entirely speculative. Testosterone prioprionate, a short ester can cause local inflammation and pain as the esters are being cleaved of rapidly. This is not an allergic response but is inflammatory. So my question is, when enanthate and cypionate esters are cleaved off, can that reaction is some people cause immune system response. And then, the esters have to go somewhere or be broken down into smaller parts to either combine and be used by the body or eliminated. Could these byproducts cause immune response in some people? Seems unikey as they are just carbon chains, not any kind of actual protein. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
TRT side effect help
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