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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 160753" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p>Idk what to tell you. I can’t help that I feel my best with higher total T levels. I’ve been doing HRT for over 5 years, now, have tried pretty much everything, and get labs done 5-6 times per year. I’m also very in tune with my body. So I know exactly how I feel with different levels of each hormone. Everyone’s different. I can’t help that I feel better with levels that are higher than what some people are used to seeing.</p><p></p><p><strong>I think you are a little confused to my story.</strong> <strong>My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them,</span> I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">libido</span>, erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc.</strong> The only reason I’ve tried changing my protocols so much is because I just couldn’t kick the brain fog, and was willing to try something else in the off chance that it might improve my brain fog. But recently, I learned that the house I’ve been at for about 6 years now, is infested with black mold. This is most likely the reason for my brain fog. I’m actually moving out in 1-2 weeks, and I’m hoping the brain fog starts to improve once I get out of the moldy environment I’m in.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><strong>So it’s not that some of the protocols I’ve been on haven’t worked. Some have worked extremely well.</strong></span> <strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Honestly, 90% of the time on HRT I’ve felt great in all areas other than brain fog.</span></strong> I have more lab work to look back to than most will have in 20 lifetimes. For me, it’s easy to see that anytime I’ve felt my best, my total T has been 1500+. Anytime my free T falls too low (for me), I still feel ok in most areas, but there’s absolutely a noticeable difference compared to when my free T is where I like it. Again, I can’t help that I feel better with higher levels than what is the “norm”.</p><p></p><p>Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><strong>At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. </strong></span>It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T, <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><strong>that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once.</strong></span> It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.</p></blockquote><p></p><p>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your clomid and hCG mono therapy aside.....the majority of your time on trt you have always ran absurdly high TT/FT levels.....let alone you were using an inaccurate testing method for FT. Your FT levels were always much higher than you thought.</p><p></p><p>Again.....ever since you started posting on this forum you have never stated you ever tried running lower TT/FT levels for a long enough period to truly gauge how you feel.</p><p></p><p>You have went from two extremes.....a TT trough 1800-1600 ng/dL for a majority of time on trt up until your most recent change to transdermal cream which had your TT 817 ng/dL and FT around 30 ng/dL (top end reference range TruT calculated) and you were only on such protocol at said levels for 2 weeks.....than you go on stating that you do not feel well overall.....WTF?</p><p></p><p>The 1800 ng/dL was at trough on an EOD protocol.....your peak levels would be higher.</p><p></p><p>Never seen you ever try running a TT trough 1000-1200 ng/dL which would have your FT in the high 30's ng/dL (over the top end) for a solid 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel.</p><p></p><p>How can you state that you NEED to run absurdly high TT/FT levels when you have never tried running lower levels for a sensible amount of time?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here are some of your most recent labs from earlier this year before you decided to give up on injections and switch over to the transdermal cream.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/gmans-test-prop-labs.18708/post-148009" target="_blank">May 8, 2019</a></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">4-30-19</span></strong></p><p><strong>Labs were while on this protocol: (Testosterone Propionate only)</strong></p><p><strong>TEST - 122.5mg/ week. 17.5mg injected ED IM</strong></p><p><strong>No HCG</strong></p><p><strong>No AI</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>*Labs were drawn 34 hours after last 17.5mg injection. Basically 1.5 days after last injection*</strong></p><p><strong>Reason was because I held my injection the morning I was going to get labs, but wasn't able to make it to Quest before I had to go to work. So didn't get to inject before work, and ended up getting labs done right after work at 5pm.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Total Testosterone - <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">1423</span> (250-1100 ng/dL)</strong></p><p><strong>Free Testosterone - 134.8 (46.0-224.0)</strong></p><p><strong>Bioavailable Testosterone - 265.5 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)</strong></p><p><strong>SHBG <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">63</span> (10-50) High due to being on desiccated thyroid (I'm assuming)</strong></p><p><strong>E2 Sensitive - 72</strong></p><p><strong>E2 NOT Sensitive - 49 (After analyzing all previous labs, this is my correct E2, IMO, not 72)</strong></p><p><strong>E2 Free - 1.02 (0.2-1.5)</strong></p><p><strong>Albumin -<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> 4.3</span> (3.6-5.1)</strong></p><p><strong>IGF-1 - 202 (53-331)</strong></p><p><strong>B12 - 1081 (200-1100)</strong></p><p><strong>DHEA-S - 465 (106-464) No DHEA supplementation</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>On your above protocol!</p><p></p><p><strong>TT 1423 ng/dL,</strong> <strong>SHBG 63 nmol/L,</strong> <strong>Albumin 4.3 g/dL</strong> than your <strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">FT is 48.24 ng/dL</span></strong></p><p><strong>(still very high.....reference range 16-31 ng/dL).</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are going to tell me that you do not feel well at this FT level than you have a lot more going on than simply your testosterone.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>For reference, here were the last labs I had done while on testosterone cypionate</strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">2-20-19</span></strong></p><p><strong>Labs were while on this protocol:</strong></p><p><strong>TEST- 171.5mg/ week. 49mg injected EOD.</strong></p><p><strong>HCG- 1000iu. 290iu EOD</strong></p><p><strong>Exemestane - 6.25mg E3D - E4D</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>*Labs were done the morning I was supposed to inject, prior to injecting. So at trough, while injecting EOD*</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Total Testosterone -<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> 1670 </span>(250-1100 ng/dL)</strong></p><p><strong>Free Testosterone - 242.8 (46.0-224.0)</strong></p><p><strong>Bioavailable Testosterone - 509.9 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)</strong></p><p><strong>SHBG <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">44 </span>(10-50)</strong></p><p><strong>E2 Sensitive - 28</strong></p><p><strong>E2 NOT Sensitive - 32</strong></p><p><strong>E2 Free - 0.76 (0.2-1.5)</strong></p><p><strong>Albumin -<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> 4.6</span> (3.6-5.1)</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>On your above protocol.....and you were using an aromatase inhibitor!</p><p></p><p>Using the newer calculated <strong>TruT</strong> method with a <strong>TT 1670 ng/dL, SHBG 44 nmol/L (by no means that high),</strong> <strong>Albumin 4.6 g/dL</strong> than your<strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> FT is 56.77 ng/dL</span> (way too high.....reference range 16-31 ng/dL).</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You stated in your reply below:</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">"I think you are a little confused to my story.</span></strong> <strong>My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them, I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">libido</span>, erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc"</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Really?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Some of your older previous posts!</p><p></p><p><strong>"I'm in a similar boat. High SHBG. No ED whatsoever,<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> but libido is not really there"</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">2-25-18</span> labs were while on this protocol:</strong></p><p><strong>Test- 110mg split into EOD dosing</strong></p><p><strong>HCG - 800IU split into EOD dosing</strong></p><p><strong>No AI</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>I inject test and HCG same day in the morning. Labs drawn in the morning of injection day, prior to injections.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Total <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">1687 </span>(250-1100 ng/dL)</strong></p><p>Free 238.6 (46.0-224.0)</p><p>Bioavailable 459.6 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)</p><p><strong>SHBG<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> 47</span> </strong>(10-50)</p><p>E2 Sensitive - 73</p><p>E2 standard - 59</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/all-hcg-is-not-the-same-your-balls-care.10904/post-75482" target="_blank"><strong><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Jun 29, 2017</span></strong></a></p><p></p><p><strong>So just got my 60 day labs back recently, and it gave me a good insight on how the Pregnyl HCG is working. Protocol is <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">100mg Test/ week</span> and <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">1,000IU HCG/ week. </span>No AI. Both dosed EOD. 28mg of test EOD, and 270iu of HCG EOD. Labs were done the morning I was supposed to inject. Test brand is EmpowerRx and HCG brand is Pregnyl.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Total Test - <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">1855</span> (250-1100)</strong></p><p><strong>Free Test - 296.8 (35.0-155.0)</strong></p><p><strong>Estradiol - 70 (<29)</strong></p><p><strong>SHBG - <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">44</span> (10-50)</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/bigger-guys-require-bigger-dosages.14986/post-109714" target="_blank"><strong>Jun 7, 2018</strong></a></p><p></p><p><strong>I've read multiple times and seen multiple anectodal stories of bigger guys requiring bigger doses of test, is this true? I've also seen that the opposite is true. Smaller guys requiring less. I think I might be seeing it with myself to be honest.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>For example,<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> I'm 5'5” 135lbs 31 Y/O and my first TRT protocol had my total test at 1855 at trough.</span> So I think there might be some truth to this. I'm on EOD injections, so my trough isn't going to fluctuate much from my peak.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>First Protocol:</strong></p><p><strong>105mg Empower pharmacy Test/ week total. Split into EOD injections. (28mg EOD)</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>1,000iu's Pregnyl HCG/ week total. Split into EOD injections. (270iu EOD)</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>No AI.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>SHBG - <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">44 </span>(10-50)</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Total test -<span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> 1855</span> (250-1100)</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Labs were drawn in the morning right before my injections</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your FT was f***n <strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">67.52 ng/dL at trough!</span></strong></p><p>[ATTACH=full]8439[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Feb.13/2017</strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">I currently have low to no libido. </span>Erections are no problem, but my sex drive is still not there. <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">I think that has a lot to do with my E2 being 70. </span>I'm working on lowering that now, so I'm hoping my sex drive returns when my E2 gets within range. Once my libido comes back, my theory is that my semen amount during ejaculation will increase. I could be wrong on that tho since some men just on testosterone with high libidos have reported low ejaculate amount. But I'm curious to see if the amount for me does increase while on Test + HCG when my libido returns. But to answer your question again, I do think I noticed a small increase when switching to Pregnyl, but nothing very significant. </strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/donating-blood-to-control-levels.13532/post-96190" target="_blank"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Feb 8, 2018</span></a></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">My HCT was steady at 48 for a while on TRT. It has recently increased to 51. I'm also on EOD injections. I'm hoping one or two whole blood donations will lower it enough to where it stays steady in the mid 40's.</span> Then donate again in the future if needed. But due to the dangers of lowering ferritin too much, I'm hoping to not have to make these blood donations a regular thing. <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">My ferritin has gone as low as 20 in the past due to just getting lab work done too frequently, so I would imagine donating blood too frequently would for sure tank it.</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong>*</strong>doubt it had anything to do with getting lab work done too frequently as for most the volume of blood taken would not be significant to effect such.....donating too frequently and lack of iron through diet/supplementation, absorption issue or underlying health issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/restarting-after-8-years-of-trt.13430/post-95775" target="_blank"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Feb 5, 2018</span></a></strong></p><p></p><p><strong>I was using a bottle of HCG that I had been using for a little over 2 months, and I noticed my testicles were hanging nicely and my penis was very full flaccid the last few weeks of that bottle. <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Then a few days after starting a new bottle of HCG I noticed increased brain fog, increased fatigue,</span> my testicles weren't hanging as well and my penis was nowhere near as full as it was when using the older bottle of HCG. Same brand I've been using for over a year now. I'm getting blood work done soon, but I'm guessing the new bottle of HCG was obviously more potent, and made my E2 rise too much. Or too much HCG is increasing downstream hormones too much or something and causing my issues. Either scenario, lowering my HCG dose might help. Currently on 800iu/ week. Thinking about going down to 500iu/week. Might even stop it all together for a couple weeks just to see how I feel with it out of my system. Can't cut it out forever due to not wanting my testicles to atrophy</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/high-libido-while-having-low-testosterone.14886/post-108755" target="_blank">May 30, 2018</a></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Same. With low T I hade zero sexual sides, and libido was good from what I remember. </span>It was definitely the mental sides that caused me to seek treatment.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Also I’m able to keep fat off much easier now. That was a side effect of low T I didn’t even realize I was experiencing. It was definitely harder to keep fat off before I started TRT.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have way too many numerous posts on here where you were struggling with libido, E2 (as you used to take an aromatase inhibitor), high hematocrit (crashed ferritin from donating too frequently), sub-par thyroid, possible issues regarding adrenals.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yet the whole time on trt you have been running absurdly high TT/FT levels.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/high-libido-while-having-low-testosterone.14886/post-108755" target="_blank">May 30, 2018</a></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Same. With low T I hade zero sexual sides, and libido was good from what I remember. </span>It was definitely <span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)">the mental sides that caused me to seek treatment.</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Also I’m able to keep fat off much easier now. That was a side effect of low T I didn’t even realize I was experiencing. It was definitely harder to keep fat off before I started TRT.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>So let me get this right pre-trt when you had low-t which would mean your FT was sub-par as you had high SHBG so your FT would have been in low end/or under(depending on your TT/SHBG levels) of the FT reference range of 16-31 ng/dL using the newer calculated TruT method and you had zero sexual sides with a good libido but the main reason was the mental sides that caused you to seek out trt.</p><p></p><p>So pre-trt your TT levels were descent but your FT levels were low/sub-par due to your high SHBG.....using the TruT calculated method your FT levels would have been say below or just above 16 ng/dL (bottom end range).....now all of a sudden you need to jack your TT levels to 1600-1800 ng/dL and your FT levels up to 50-60+ ng/dL (double top end reference range) to experience relief/improvement of your low-t symptoms let alone overall well being?</p><p></p><p>Seems ridiculous if anything.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. </strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><strong>At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. </strong></span><strong>It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T,</strong> <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><strong>that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once.</strong></span> <strong>It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.[/QUOTE]</strong></p><p></p><p>We are not talking about half the level here as first off you never gave the protocol a fighting chance.....2 weeks in......not 2-3 months......let alone ever tried what I state below.</p><p></p><p>Would hold merit if you actually tried running slightly lower TT 1200 ng/dL and FT high 30's ng/dL for long enough to truly know how your body responds.....as you may very well feel just as good at such levels.</p><p></p><p>You went from one extreme to the other TT 1600-1800 ng/dL and FT 50-60 ng/dL (double top end range) most of your time on trt to your most recent protocol transdermal cream TT 817 ng/dL and FT 30 ng/dL (top end range) for 2 weeks not the 2-3 months needed at said TT/FT level.</p><p></p><p>What were you truly expecting here.....2 weeks in at the lower level and you were complaining I need extremely high TT/FT levels to feel my best!</p><p></p><p>You wonder why so many have issues on here.....changing their protocols left and right let alone to quickly without giving the body time to adapt (2-3 months) to the newer T levels.</p><p></p><p>Regardless whether increasing/decreasing dose levels will always be in FLUX in the weeks leading up until levels stabilize and even than it can take many months before one can truly gauge how the body responds to said TT/FT level.</p><p></p><p>Too many seem to have this mindset that very high test levels are better.....when in many cases most could feel just as well or even better running slightly lower levels......unfortunately not only do many never try such.....they never give the body time to adapt to the newer levels to truly experience whether they experience the beneficial effects or lack there of.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 160753, member: 13851"] Idk what to tell you. I can’t help that I feel my best with higher total T levels. I’ve been doing HRT for over 5 years, now, have tried pretty much everything, and get labs done 5-6 times per year. I’m also very in tune with my body. So I know exactly how I feel with different levels of each hormone. Everyone’s different. I can’t help that I feel better with levels that are higher than what some people are used to seeing. [B]I think you are a little confused to my story.[/B] [B]My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them,[/COLOR] I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]libido[/COLOR], erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc.[/B] The only reason I’ve tried changing my protocols so much is because I just couldn’t kick the brain fog, and was willing to try something else in the off chance that it might improve my brain fog. But recently, I learned that the house I’ve been at for about 6 years now, is infested with black mold. This is most likely the reason for my brain fog. I’m actually moving out in 1-2 weeks, and I’m hoping the brain fog starts to improve once I get out of the moldy environment I’m in. [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][B]So it’s not that some of the protocols I’ve been on haven’t worked. Some have worked extremely well.[/B][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Honestly, 90% of the time on HRT I’ve felt great in all areas other than brain fog.[/COLOR][/B] I have more lab work to look back to than most will have in 20 lifetimes. For me, it’s easy to see that anytime I’ve felt my best, my total T has been 1500+. Anytime my free T falls too low (for me), I still feel ok in most areas, but there’s absolutely a noticeable difference compared to when my free T is where I like it. Again, I can’t help that I feel better with higher levels than what is the “norm”. Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][B]At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. [/B][/COLOR]It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T, [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][B]that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once.[/B][/COLOR] It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.[/QUOTE] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your clomid and hCG mono therapy aside.....the majority of your time on trt you have always ran absurdly high TT/FT levels.....let alone you were using an inaccurate testing method for FT. Your FT levels were always much higher than you thought. Again.....ever since you started posting on this forum you have never stated you ever tried running lower TT/FT levels for a long enough period to truly gauge how you feel. You have went from two extremes.....a TT trough 1800-1600 ng/dL for a majority of time on trt up until your most recent change to transdermal cream which had your TT 817 ng/dL and FT around 30 ng/dL (top end reference range TruT calculated) and you were only on such protocol at said levels for 2 weeks.....than you go on stating that you do not feel well overall.....WTF? The 1800 ng/dL was at trough on an EOD protocol.....your peak levels would be higher. Never seen you ever try running a TT trough 1000-1200 ng/dL which would have your FT in the high 30's ng/dL (over the top end) for a solid 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel. How can you state that you NEED to run absurdly high TT/FT levels when you have never tried running lower levels for a sensible amount of time? Here are some of your most recent labs from earlier this year before you decided to give up on injections and switch over to the transdermal cream. [B][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/gmans-test-prop-labs.18708/post-148009']May 8, 2019[/URL][/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]4-30-19[/COLOR] Labs were while on this protocol: (Testosterone Propionate only) TEST - 122.5mg/ week. 17.5mg injected ED IM No HCG No AI[/B] [B]*Labs were drawn 34 hours after last 17.5mg injection. Basically 1.5 days after last injection* Reason was because I held my injection the morning I was going to get labs, but wasn't able to make it to Quest before I had to go to work. So didn't get to inject before work, and ended up getting labs done right after work at 5pm.[/B] [B]Total Testosterone - [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]1423[/COLOR] (250-1100 ng/dL) Free Testosterone - 134.8 (46.0-224.0) Bioavailable Testosterone - 265.5 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL) SHBG [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]63[/COLOR] (10-50) High due to being on desiccated thyroid (I'm assuming) E2 Sensitive - 72 E2 NOT Sensitive - 49 (After analyzing all previous labs, this is my correct E2, IMO, not 72) E2 Free - 1.02 (0.2-1.5) Albumin -[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] 4.3[/COLOR] (3.6-5.1) IGF-1 - 202 (53-331) B12 - 1081 (200-1100) DHEA-S - 465 (106-464) No DHEA supplementation[/B] On your above protocol! [B]TT 1423 ng/dL,[/B] [B]SHBG 63 nmol/L,[/B] [B]Albumin 4.3 g/dL[/B] than your [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]FT is 48.24 ng/dL[/COLOR] (still very high.....reference range 16-31 ng/dL).[/B] If you are going to tell me that you do not feel well at this FT level than you have a lot more going on than simply your testosterone. [B]For reference, here were the last labs I had done while on testosterone cypionate[/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]2-20-19[/COLOR] Labs were while on this protocol: TEST- 171.5mg/ week. 49mg injected EOD. HCG- 1000iu. 290iu EOD Exemestane - 6.25mg E3D - E4D[/B] [B]*Labs were done the morning I was supposed to inject, prior to injecting. So at trough, while injecting EOD*[/B] [B]Total Testosterone -[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] 1670 [/COLOR](250-1100 ng/dL) Free Testosterone - 242.8 (46.0-224.0) Bioavailable Testosterone - 509.9 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL) SHBG [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]44 [/COLOR](10-50) E2 Sensitive - 28 E2 NOT Sensitive - 32 E2 Free - 0.76 (0.2-1.5) Albumin -[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] 4.6[/COLOR] (3.6-5.1)[/B] On your above protocol.....and you were using an aromatase inhibitor! Using the newer calculated [B]TruT[/B] method with a [B]TT 1670 ng/dL, SHBG 44 nmol/L (by no means that high),[/B] [B]Albumin 4.6 g/dL[/B] than your[B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] FT is 56.77 ng/dL[/COLOR] (way too high.....reference range 16-31 ng/dL).[/B] You stated in your reply below: [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]"I think you are a little confused to my story.[/COLOR][/B] [B]My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them, I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]libido[/COLOR], erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc"[/B] Really? Some of your older previous posts! [B]"I'm in a similar boat. High SHBG. No ED whatsoever,[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] but libido is not really there"[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]2-25-18[/COLOR] labs were while on this protocol: Test- 110mg split into EOD dosing HCG - 800IU split into EOD dosing No AI[/B] [B]I inject test and HCG same day in the morning. Labs drawn in the morning of injection day, prior to injections.[/B] [B]Total [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]1687 [/COLOR](250-1100 ng/dL)[/B] Free 238.6 (46.0-224.0) Bioavailable 459.6 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL) [B]SHBG[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] 47[/COLOR] [/B](10-50) E2 Sensitive - 73 E2 standard - 59 [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/all-hcg-is-not-the-same-your-balls-care.10904/post-75482'][B][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Jun 29, 2017[/COLOR][/B][/URL] [B]So just got my 60 day labs back recently, and it gave me a good insight on how the Pregnyl HCG is working. Protocol is [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]100mg Test/ week[/COLOR] and [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]1,000IU HCG/ week. [/COLOR]No AI. Both dosed EOD. 28mg of test EOD, and 270iu of HCG EOD. Labs were done the morning I was supposed to inject. Test brand is EmpowerRx and HCG brand is Pregnyl.[/B] [B]Total Test - [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]1855[/COLOR] (250-1100) Free Test - 296.8 (35.0-155.0) Estradiol - 70 (<29) SHBG - [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]44[/COLOR] (10-50)[/B] [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/bigger-guys-require-bigger-dosages.14986/post-109714'][B]Jun 7, 2018[/B][/URL] [B]I've read multiple times and seen multiple anectodal stories of bigger guys requiring bigger doses of test, is this true? I've also seen that the opposite is true. Smaller guys requiring less. I think I might be seeing it with myself to be honest.[/B] [B]For example,[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] I'm 5'5” 135lbs 31 Y/O and my first TRT protocol had my total test at 1855 at trough.[/COLOR] So I think there might be some truth to this. I'm on EOD injections, so my trough isn't going to fluctuate much from my peak.[/B] [B]First Protocol: 105mg Empower pharmacy Test/ week total. Split into EOD injections. (28mg EOD)[/B] [B]1,000iu's Pregnyl HCG/ week total. Split into EOD injections. (270iu EOD)[/B] [B]No AI.[/B] [B]SHBG - [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]44 [/COLOR](10-50)[/B] [B]Total test -[COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] 1855[/COLOR] (250-1100)[/B] [B]Labs were drawn in the morning right before my injections[/B] Your FT was f***n [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]67.52 ng/dL at trough![/COLOR][/B] [ATTACH=full]8439[/ATTACH] [B]Feb.13/2017[/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]I currently have low to no libido. [/COLOR]Erections are no problem, but my sex drive is still not there. [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]I think that has a lot to do with my E2 being 70. [/COLOR]I'm working on lowering that now, so I'm hoping my sex drive returns when my E2 gets within range. Once my libido comes back, my theory is that my semen amount during ejaculation will increase. I could be wrong on that tho since some men just on testosterone with high libidos have reported low ejaculate amount. But I'm curious to see if the amount for me does increase while on Test + HCG when my libido returns. But to answer your question again, I do think I noticed a small increase when switching to Pregnyl, but nothing very significant. [/B] [B][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/donating-blood-to-control-levels.13532/post-96190'][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Feb 8, 2018[/COLOR][/URL][/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]My HCT was steady at 48 for a while on TRT. It has recently increased to 51. I'm also on EOD injections. I'm hoping one or two whole blood donations will lower it enough to where it stays steady in the mid 40's.[/COLOR] Then donate again in the future if needed. But due to the dangers of lowering ferritin too much, I'm hoping to not have to make these blood donations a regular thing. [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]My ferritin has gone as low as 20 in the past due to just getting lab work done too frequently, so I would imagine donating blood too frequently would for sure tank it.[/COLOR][/B] [B]*[/B]doubt it had anything to do with getting lab work done too frequently as for most the volume of blood taken would not be significant to effect such.....donating too frequently and lack of iron through diet/supplementation, absorption issue or underlying health issue. [B][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/restarting-after-8-years-of-trt.13430/post-95775'][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Feb 5, 2018[/COLOR][/URL][/B] [B]I was using a bottle of HCG that I had been using for a little over 2 months, and I noticed my testicles were hanging nicely and my penis was very full flaccid the last few weeks of that bottle. [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Then a few days after starting a new bottle of HCG I noticed increased brain fog, increased fatigue,[/COLOR] my testicles weren't hanging as well and my penis was nowhere near as full as it was when using the older bottle of HCG. Same brand I've been using for over a year now. I'm getting blood work done soon, but I'm guessing the new bottle of HCG was obviously more potent, and made my E2 rise too much. Or too much HCG is increasing downstream hormones too much or something and causing my issues. Either scenario, lowering my HCG dose might help. Currently on 800iu/ week. Thinking about going down to 500iu/week. Might even stop it all together for a couple weeks just to see how I feel with it out of my system. Can't cut it out forever due to not wanting my testicles to atrophy[/B] [B][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/high-libido-while-having-low-testosterone.14886/post-108755']May 30, 2018[/URL][/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Same. With low T I hade zero sexual sides, and libido was good from what I remember. [/COLOR]It was definitely the mental sides that caused me to seek treatment.[/B] [B]Also I’m able to keep fat off much easier now. That was a side effect of low T I didn’t even realize I was experiencing. It was definitely harder to keep fat off before I started TRT.[/B] You have way too many numerous posts on here where you were struggling with libido, E2 (as you used to take an aromatase inhibitor), high hematocrit (crashed ferritin from donating too frequently), sub-par thyroid, possible issues regarding adrenals. Yet the whole time on trt you have been running absurdly high TT/FT levels. [B][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/high-libido-while-having-low-testosterone.14886/post-108755']May 30, 2018[/URL][/B] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Same. With low T I hade zero sexual sides, and libido was good from what I remember. [/COLOR]It was definitely [COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)]the mental sides that caused me to seek treatment.[/COLOR][/B] [B]Also I’m able to keep fat off much easier now. That was a side effect of low T I didn’t even realize I was experiencing. It was definitely harder to keep fat off before I started TRT.[/B] So let me get this right pre-trt when you had low-t which would mean your FT was sub-par as you had high SHBG so your FT would have been in low end/or under(depending on your TT/SHBG levels) of the FT reference range of 16-31 ng/dL using the newer calculated TruT method and you had zero sexual sides with a good libido but the main reason was the mental sides that caused you to seek out trt. So pre-trt your TT levels were descent but your FT levels were low/sub-par due to your high SHBG.....using the TruT calculated method your FT levels would have been say below or just above 16 ng/dL (bottom end range).....now all of a sudden you need to jack your TT levels to 1600-1800 ng/dL and your FT levels up to 50-60+ ng/dL (double top end reference range) to experience relief/improvement of your low-t symptoms let alone overall well being? Seems ridiculous if anything. [B]Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. [/B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][B]At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. [/B][/COLOR][B]It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T,[/B] [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][B]that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once.[/B][/COLOR] [B]It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.[/QUOTE][/B] We are not talking about half the level here as first off you never gave the protocol a fighting chance.....2 weeks in......not 2-3 months......let alone ever tried what I state below. Would hold merit if you actually tried running slightly lower TT 1200 ng/dL and FT high 30's ng/dL for long enough to truly know how your body responds.....as you may very well feel just as good at such levels. You went from one extreme to the other TT 1600-1800 ng/dL and FT 50-60 ng/dL (double top end range) most of your time on trt to your most recent protocol transdermal cream TT 817 ng/dL and FT 30 ng/dL (top end range) for 2 weeks not the 2-3 months needed at said TT/FT level. What were you truly expecting here.....2 weeks in at the lower level and you were complaining I need extremely high TT/FT levels to feel my best! You wonder why so many have issues on here.....changing their protocols left and right let alone to quickly without giving the body time to adapt (2-3 months) to the newer T levels. Regardless whether increasing/decreasing dose levels will always be in FLUX in the weeks leading up until levels stabilize and even than it can take many months before one can truly gauge how the body responds to said TT/FT level. Too many seem to have this mindset that very high test levels are better.....when in many cases most could feel just as well or even better running slightly lower levels......unfortunately not only do many never try such.....they never give the body time to adapt to the newer levels to truly experience whether they experience the beneficial effects or lack there of. [/QUOTE]
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