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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Thinking about starting trt
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 206988" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p><strong><em>- Dont start lower than 120mg per week and dont start higher than 150mg per week. You may need to adjust later from there</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Backtracking now are we?</p><p></p><p>You stated do not start lower than 120 or higher than 150 mg/week.</p><p></p><p>So you are telling the OP to jump on 120-150 mg/week!</p><p></p><p>Of course, 120mg T/week is far from a high dose, and nowhere did you take a stand and state at least start at 120 mg/week.....you left it wide open 120-150 mg T/week!</p><p></p><p>Again the best piece of advice is to start low and go slow on a T-only protocol.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>If I listened to your advice I would be screwed. </em></strong></p><p></p><p>So let me get this right you take a man about to start trt (including you) that has no experience with exogenous T, absolutely no idea how his body will react to T, and recommend starting low and going slow (100 mg T/week) whether once-weekly or split into more frequent injections and now all of a sudden he is screwed?</p><p></p><p>You take the same man and recommend that he has the option of injecting strictly sub-q or IM and you let him know that there should be no difference when it comes to the absorption/effectiveness of T although some men tend not to fare well on sub-q but it is far from common and he decides to try sub-q and now all of a sudden he is screwed?</p><p></p><p>LMFAO!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>And yes, some men need higher test levels to feel good for whatever health issues they have - SSSRI usage, ex steroid users etc.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Who is denying such?</p><p></p><p>Nowhere did I state that some men do not need to achieve higher end TT/FT levels to experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.</p><p></p><p>I have stated numerous times on the forum over the years that many men will tend to do better with levels on the<u> higher end</u> let alone with a <u>trough FT 20-30 ng/dL or sligtly higher</u>.</p><p></p><p>Most doctors in the know would tell you the same!</p><p></p><p>Some men may very well NEED to run higher levels (far from common) or WANT to run higher levels (very common).</p><p></p><p>Never had an issue with one choosing to run higher-end trough levels if they feel great overall let alone overall blood markers are healthy.</p><p></p><p>If you took the time to look into things deeper you would clearly see that I am trying to stress the point that <u>most men would never need to achieve absurd TROUGH TT 1500-2000 ng/dL range with absurd TROUGH FT 50-80ng/dL to experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms let alone the overall beneficial effects of having healthy T levels</u>!</p><p></p><p>Misinformation spewed on the bro forums let alone by the blast/cruisers.</p><p></p><p>Absurdly high T is where it's at bruh, high SHBG bruh.....LMFAO!</p><p></p><p>Top it all off that many of these same individuals claiming that they need to be running these absurdly high trough FT levels were jacked up on T from the get-go let alone many never have even given a lower dosed protocol a fighting chance.</p><p></p><p>If you want to get into the sensitivity of the AR and CAG repeat length (short/long).....sure some outliers may very well need absurdly high levels but again men with <u>higher CAG repeat lengths</u> are far from common.</p><p></p><p>The only way to truly know if you are one who would fall under such would be to have genetic testing done which is expensive!</p><p></p><p>What dose of T let alone blood levels one needs comes down to the sensitivity of the AR (androgen receptor), CAG repeat length (short/long), SHBG, bodyweight.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>Yes, there are men that can achieve even 1200ng/dl total with sub q snd they are very rare. And with your favourite sub q they will be even far morr rare.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Many men can easily achieve healthy let alone absurdly high trough TT/FT on 100-150mg T/week.....no brainer here!</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, you would have no clue though right seeing as you and many have never tested their FT using the most accurate assays.....gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (especially in cases of altered SHBG)!</p><p></p><p>You did state.....<em><strong>F</strong></em><strong><em><strong><em>o</em></strong>r your information I started TRT with a total test level in the high 500s(varying from 300-400s) and <u>SHBG of 50</u>, but I had most of the symptoms.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Coming from the same guy with high SHBG 50 nmol/L that never had even tested his FT using the most accurate assays.....LMFAO!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>If someone happens to get a bit higher levels for a few weeks there is nothing scary or dangerous in that, thats why we do blood work and he will just lower his dose IF the way he feels amd the side effects suggests so, not just a number above a compromised reference range. If a guy happens to get at even at 1500, feels perfect, has no side effects, lipids, blood counts, blood pressure and all other health markers are good why should he lower it? I definetelly wouldnt, my doctor as well. Nothing in the medical literature suggests these levels are harmful long term, and even if some problems start to occur due to some undiagnosed health problem like sleep apnea for example we do regular blood work, they will appear, the guy will lower his dose and fix the immediate problems while addressing the root cause</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Tell us something we already do not know!</p><p></p><p>Fuck the current reference range.....low end used to be 350 and high end 1200 ng/dL!</p><p></p><p>Never have I stated on here that one needs to stay within a reference range.</p><p></p><p>Comes down to the individual and where one feels best while at the same time minimizing/avoiding any potential sides and keeping blood markers healthy long-term!</p><p></p><p>Again most men would easily do well with a trough TT 1000-1200 ng/dL and trough FT in the 20-30ng/dL range.</p><p></p><p>Does that mean running higher T levels above the top-end TT 1200 ng/dL or FT 30 ng/dL is dangerous or scary because it would be considered supra-physiological.....who the f**k stated such.....NOT ME.</p><p></p><p>Let's be very clear here nowhere did I state that it is dangerous let alone scary if someone is running a TT 1000-2000 ng/dL or FT 30-80 ng/dL.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>If you think 1200ng/dl is supraphysiological because it is outside the range I really see no point in continuing discussion with you</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Guess everything I stand for on the forum went over your f**kn head.....LOL!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 206988, member: 13851"] [B][I]- Dont start lower than 120mg per week and dont start higher than 150mg per week. You may need to adjust later from there[/I][/B] Backtracking now are we? You stated do not start lower than 120 or higher than 150 mg/week. So you are telling the OP to jump on 120-150 mg/week! Of course, 120mg T/week is far from a high dose, and nowhere did you take a stand and state at least start at 120 mg/week.....you left it wide open 120-150 mg T/week! Again the best piece of advice is to start low and go slow on a T-only protocol. [B][I]If I listened to your advice I would be screwed. [/I][/B] So let me get this right you take a man about to start trt (including you) that has no experience with exogenous T, absolutely no idea how his body will react to T, and recommend starting low and going slow (100 mg T/week) whether once-weekly or split into more frequent injections and now all of a sudden he is screwed? You take the same man and recommend that he has the option of injecting strictly sub-q or IM and you let him know that there should be no difference when it comes to the absorption/effectiveness of T although some men tend not to fare well on sub-q but it is far from common and he decides to try sub-q and now all of a sudden he is screwed? LMFAO! [B][I]And yes, some men need higher test levels to feel good for whatever health issues they have - SSSRI usage, ex steroid users etc.[/I][/B] Who is denying such? Nowhere did I state that some men do not need to achieve higher end TT/FT levels to experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms. I have stated numerous times on the forum over the years that many men will tend to do better with levels on the[U] higher end[/U] let alone with a [U]trough FT 20-30 ng/dL or sligtly higher[/U]. Most doctors in the know would tell you the same! Some men may very well NEED to run higher levels (far from common) or WANT to run higher levels (very common). Never had an issue with one choosing to run higher-end trough levels if they feel great overall let alone overall blood markers are healthy. If you took the time to look into things deeper you would clearly see that I am trying to stress the point that [U]most men would never need to achieve absurd TROUGH TT 1500-2000 ng/dL range with absurd TROUGH FT 50-80ng/dL to experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms let alone the overall beneficial effects of having healthy T levels[/U]! Misinformation spewed on the bro forums let alone by the blast/cruisers. Absurdly high T is where it's at bruh, high SHBG bruh.....LMFAO! Top it all off that many of these same individuals claiming that they need to be running these absurdly high trough FT levels were jacked up on T from the get-go let alone many never have even given a lower dosed protocol a fighting chance. If you want to get into the sensitivity of the AR and CAG repeat length (short/long).....sure some outliers may very well need absurdly high levels but again men with [U]higher CAG repeat lengths[/U] are far from common. The only way to truly know if you are one who would fall under such would be to have genetic testing done which is expensive! What dose of T let alone blood levels one needs comes down to the sensitivity of the AR (androgen receptor), CAG repeat length (short/long), SHBG, bodyweight. [B][I]Yes, there are men that can achieve even 1200ng/dl total with sub q snd they are very rare. And with your favourite sub q they will be even far morr rare.[/I][/B] Many men can easily achieve healthy let alone absurdly high trough TT/FT on 100-150mg T/week.....no brainer here! Unfortunately, you would have no clue though right seeing as you and many have never tested their FT using the most accurate assays.....gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (especially in cases of altered SHBG)! You did state.....[I][B]F[/B][/I][B][I][B][I]o[/I][/B]r your information I started TRT with a total test level in the high 500s(varying from 300-400s) and [U]SHBG of 50[/U], but I had most of the symptoms.[/I][/B] Coming from the same guy with high SHBG 50 nmol/L that never had even tested his FT using the most accurate assays.....LMFAO! [B][I]If someone happens to get a bit higher levels for a few weeks there is nothing scary or dangerous in that, thats why we do blood work and he will just lower his dose IF the way he feels amd the side effects suggests so, not just a number above a compromised reference range. If a guy happens to get at even at 1500, feels perfect, has no side effects, lipids, blood counts, blood pressure and all other health markers are good why should he lower it? I definetelly wouldnt, my doctor as well. Nothing in the medical literature suggests these levels are harmful long term, and even if some problems start to occur due to some undiagnosed health problem like sleep apnea for example we do regular blood work, they will appear, the guy will lower his dose and fix the immediate problems while addressing the root cause[/I][/B] Tell us something we already do not know! Fuck the current reference range.....low end used to be 350 and high end 1200 ng/dL! Never have I stated on here that one needs to stay within a reference range. Comes down to the individual and where one feels best while at the same time minimizing/avoiding any potential sides and keeping blood markers healthy long-term! Again most men would easily do well with a trough TT 1000-1200 ng/dL and trough FT in the 20-30ng/dL range. Does that mean running higher T levels above the top-end TT 1200 ng/dL or FT 30 ng/dL is dangerous or scary because it would be considered supra-physiological.....who the f**k stated such.....NOT ME. Let's be very clear here nowhere did I state that it is dangerous let alone scary if someone is running a TT 1000-2000 ng/dL or FT 30-80 ng/dL. [B][I]If you think 1200ng/dl is supraphysiological because it is outside the range I really see no point in continuing discussion with you[/I][/B] Guess everything I stand for on the forum went over your f**kn head.....LOL! [/QUOTE]
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Thinking about starting trt
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