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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Testosterone dimers
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<blockquote data-quote="granger" data-source="post: 260740" data-attributes="member: 45577"><p>- yes test dimmer are natural. as I stated the one paper speaks about endogenous/in vivo ie natural produced IN the animal.. lol 3rd time saying this but I get ranty.. yes they will have differing effects as get bound differently ie more likely to be bound by albumin at differing rates which of course changes ability to "go to work".. I think of it like free or bound test...in the study I think they are trying to figure out ways to prevent test from growing cancers. there are man made dimmers aswell and were studied for mutagenic qualities, however other papers discuss how most/all dimmers affect DNA RNA differently and change morphology of the actual strands, but perhaps not enough to be mutagenic.. again, im not an expert im learning about this aswell just by readings papers, so feel free to try and dig stuff up. varying dimmers are more or less androgenic, IIRC the aromatic dimmer being more than aliphatic. that is to say again, yes varying pharmacodynamics. </p><p></p><p>- ill try later to see if I can dig up the paper about "new esters" at the time and dimmers. dont think it talked about EXACT differences in effects rather studies of purely structure and metabolism/half lives. may have other insights I dont know was old school type writer written and those old school academics tended to really blabber on VS today most keep things easier to read/to the point.</p><p></p><p>-because they are just part of what test is no it wouldn't be considered contamination (unless perhaps some mutagenic forms happen to be made), although certainly may be something to varying precursors, purification and ester type that one can likely assume at least SOME variance in dimmer ratios/levels.. probably safe to assume wouldn't mirror exactly natural because of processing/ manufacturing. How much of an effect may be negligible depending on which your comparing but may be why some esters seem to act different even when dosed in such a way the amount of exogenous test levels is nearly identical or maybe simply the ester itself, never know, but interesting... </p><p></p><p>-the testing is of course far more time consuming never mind purification of varying dimmers than testing of them in vivo vs just on cells. so unlikely to find much particularly when comes to a brand vs brand or ester vs ester type with dose dependant charts. </p><p></p><p>I find interesting when I find out about such things as potentially may offer answers to why some folks get varying effects from different brands for example. possibly placebo forsure, but IMO there is often something to it.. like if someone preferred a different brand of clomid, but Dr says they are all the same dose, ur crazy... BUT when look into it clomid isn't one singular thing and may have differing ratios of enclomophene for example.. not saying ive heard anyone say prefer 1 clomid over another but certainly possible esp when definition of ratios of what's in climid isn't a strict thing from my understanding. ANYHOO, I think u get my point.</p><p></p><p>sorry I dont have all the answers! but would love a DR to explain it and encourage others to see what they can dig up... I doubt we would get any definite answers when it comes to specific products, however may get some workable theories! particularly if can nail down if certain product tends to have more of the dimmer that has stronger effect on DNA(of course assuming its a bad thing), or may offer better symptom relief, or anabolic etc etc.</p><p></p><p>would also be cool if could get testing done to compare a few commercial products, just to see if much of any difference.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="granger, post: 260740, member: 45577"] - yes test dimmer are natural. as I stated the one paper speaks about endogenous/in vivo ie natural produced IN the animal.. lol 3rd time saying this but I get ranty.. yes they will have differing effects as get bound differently ie more likely to be bound by albumin at differing rates which of course changes ability to "go to work".. I think of it like free or bound test...in the study I think they are trying to figure out ways to prevent test from growing cancers. there are man made dimmers aswell and were studied for mutagenic qualities, however other papers discuss how most/all dimmers affect DNA RNA differently and change morphology of the actual strands, but perhaps not enough to be mutagenic.. again, im not an expert im learning about this aswell just by readings papers, so feel free to try and dig stuff up. varying dimmers are more or less androgenic, IIRC the aromatic dimmer being more than aliphatic. that is to say again, yes varying pharmacodynamics. - ill try later to see if I can dig up the paper about "new esters" at the time and dimmers. dont think it talked about EXACT differences in effects rather studies of purely structure and metabolism/half lives. may have other insights I dont know was old school type writer written and those old school academics tended to really blabber on VS today most keep things easier to read/to the point. -because they are just part of what test is no it wouldn't be considered contamination (unless perhaps some mutagenic forms happen to be made), although certainly may be something to varying precursors, purification and ester type that one can likely assume at least SOME variance in dimmer ratios/levels.. probably safe to assume wouldn't mirror exactly natural because of processing/ manufacturing. How much of an effect may be negligible depending on which your comparing but may be why some esters seem to act different even when dosed in such a way the amount of exogenous test levels is nearly identical or maybe simply the ester itself, never know, but interesting... -the testing is of course far more time consuming never mind purification of varying dimmers than testing of them in vivo vs just on cells. so unlikely to find much particularly when comes to a brand vs brand or ester vs ester type with dose dependant charts. I find interesting when I find out about such things as potentially may offer answers to why some folks get varying effects from different brands for example. possibly placebo forsure, but IMO there is often something to it.. like if someone preferred a different brand of clomid, but Dr says they are all the same dose, ur crazy... BUT when look into it clomid isn't one singular thing and may have differing ratios of enclomophene for example.. not saying ive heard anyone say prefer 1 clomid over another but certainly possible esp when definition of ratios of what's in climid isn't a strict thing from my understanding. ANYHOO, I think u get my point. sorry I dont have all the answers! but would love a DR to explain it and encourage others to see what they can dig up... I doubt we would get any definite answers when it comes to specific products, however may get some workable theories! particularly if can nail down if certain product tends to have more of the dimmer that has stronger effect on DNA(of course assuming its a bad thing), or may offer better symptom relief, or anabolic etc etc. would also be cool if could get testing done to compare a few commercial products, just to see if much of any difference. [/QUOTE]
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