Test and E2 thru the roof on standard TRT protocol

[bp]

Evening Gents.
Any feedback from you lads here would be great.

I started on TRT 9 weeks ago and followed the protocol as follows:
*125mg Test enanthate weekly. Taken in two 62.5mg doses E3.5D
*200iu HCG EoD

I checked after my doc prescribed the above protocol, and it seemed the standard intro approach.

I felt good to begin with, strong and sharp, then I started to feel dodgy. Irritable, flushing, emotional, and so had some bloods drawn before the 3 month mark came, which is when my bloods were due to be taken by my Doc.
The results shocked the shit out of me to say the least!
Everything came back fine, within range, shbg, haematocrit, haem conc etc,...however.

Total Testosterone 2540ng\dl (88nmol/l)
Estradiol E2 . . 92pg/ml (338pmol/l)

!!!!! I double and triple checked my dosages, my needles and syringes. Everything was spot on.

I wondered if the vial was mis calibrated for test. ( a 250mg 10ml vial), but a buddy who used the same batch said his bloods were identical to always using this brand and batch .( hes been on trt for over 1 year)

Ive come across literature which seems to suggest that im simply a hyperesponder to the test and HCG, and that the answer is simply to lower my doses to a third of what i was using, (40-50mg test a week spread over two or three pins) and that i should be happy about it as it requires less meds for the same results, and its cheaper

have you fellas come across this often?
any advice or info would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

 

[Systemlord]

I shudder to think where my estrogen would be at those Total T levels. The problem with TRT is dosing isn't linear, I would do 30mg twice weekly and maintain the HCG dosing. You could also be responding to HCG well adding to your Total T score.

Your SHBG level is an important factor in designing a protocol, do you know where SHBG sits?

 

[madman]

Evening Gents.
Any feedback from you lads here would be great.

I started on TRT 9 weeks ago and followed the protocol as follows:
*125mg Test enanthate weekly. Taken in two 62.5mg doses E3.5D
*200iu HCG EoD

I checked after my doc prescribed the above protocol, and it seemed the standard intro approach.

I felt good to begin with, strong and sharp, then I started to feel dodgy. Irritable, flushing, emotional, and so had some bloods drawn before the 3 month mark came, which is when my bloods were due to be taken by my Doc.
The results shocked the shit out of me to say the least!
Everything came back fine, within range, shbg, haematocrit, haem conc etc,...however.

Total Testosterone 2540ng\dl (88nmol/l)
Estradiol E2 . . 92pg/ml (338pmol/l)

!!!!! I double and triple checked my dosages, my needles and syringes. Everything was spot on.

I wondered if the vial was mis calibrated for test. ( a 250mg 10ml vial), but a buddy who used the same batch said his bloods were identical to always using this brand and batch .( hes been on trt for over 1 year)

Ive come across literature which seems to suggest that im simply a hyperesponder to the test and HCG, and that the answer is simply to lower my doses to a third of what i was using, (40-50mg test a week spread over two or three pins) and that i should be happy about it as it requires less meds for the same results, and its cheaper

have you fellas come across this often?
any advice or info would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

I would say your problem is the use of a UGL product as regardless of what one tells you there is not only a strong chance that black market product have been known not only to be under-dosed but over-dosed as well.

Highly doubtful you are hitting a TT blood level of 2500 ng/dL injecting 125 mg/week and 200iu HCG (EOD) even if it was peak levels and to top it off you are also splitting injections 62.5mg (every 3.5 days) so no way you are hitting a 2500+ T level post injection.

I would say your test is overdosed or you are injecting more than you say!

 

[madman]

Why are you even using UGL instead of prescribed test as you stated "checked after my doc prescribed the above protocol, and it seemed the standard intro approach"

Testosterone enanthate or cypionate are the most commonly prescribed esters for trt and whether pharma grade or compounded they come in 100 mg/ml or more commonly 200 mg/ml strength 10ml vials not 250mg/ml strength 10 ml vials.

 

[bp]

I shudder to think where my estrogen would be at those Total T levels. The problem with TRT is dosing isn't linear, I would do 30mg twice weekly and maintain the HCG dosing. You could also be responding to HCG well adding to your Total T score.

Your SHBG level is an important factor in designing a protocol, do you know where SHBG sits?

on these bloods it was 31.3 nmol\l

it was raised in the past ( hovering between 50-60 nmol/l)

regarding the protocol you recommend. i had come to a similar conclusion of maybe doing 12.5mg test EoD, to help lower the spike and drop the E2.
My plan was to wait 8 days until i pin again (to allow the test and E2 to leave my system.)The test e having a half life of about 4.5 days, i did a rough calculation, and this would put my test at around 720ng\dl, which seems a good starting point to address the new protocol. What you think ?

 

[Systemlord]

on these bloods it was 31.3 nmol\l

it was raised in the past ( hovering between 50-60 nmol/l)

regarding the protocol you recommend. i had come to a similar conclusion of maybe doing 12.5mg test EoD, to help lower the spike and drop the E2.
My plan was to wait 8 days until i pin again (to allow the test and E2 to leave my system.)The test e having a half life of about 4.5 days, i did a rough calculation, and this would put my test at around 720ng\dl, which seems a good starting point to address the new protocol. What you think ?

I don't see a reason why EOD dosing wouldn't work, levels would be more steady and estrogen would likely not spike as high.

 

[bp]

I don't see a reason why EOD dosing wouldn't work, levels would be more steady and estrogen would likely not spike as high.

This is what i was hoping for.
In your experience, have you seen gents before who have dosed such small levels of test whilst on TRT ? ( 40-50mg test / week), is this common ?

 

[Systemlord]

This is what i was hoping for.
In your experience, have you seen gents before who have dosed such small levels of test whilst on TRT ? ( 40-50mg test / week), is this common ?

You are an outlier, most men need closer to 100mg weekly split up two or more time per week. I can only remember a few cases of men who needed very little testosterone to see high levels.

 

[bp]

I would say your problem is the use of a UGL product as regardless of what one tells you there is not only a strong chance that black market product have been known not only to be under-dosed but over-dosed as well.

Highly doubtful you are hitting a TT blood level of 2500 ng/dL injecting 125 mg/week and 200iu HCG (EOD) even if it was peak levels and to top it off you are also splitting injections 62.5mg (every 3.5 days) so no way you are hitting a 2500+ T level post injection.

I would say your test is overdosed or you are injecting more than you say!

My math has been on point, insulin 27g pins,
0.25ml per pin , twice per week ( 250mg test e/ 1ml) = 125mg test e weekly

i must admit that im worried the test is severly overdosed.

Doesnt enanthate saturated the oil at around 300mg per 1ml, making crazy overdosing impossible?

Whats the highest level of overdosing youve witnessed in your time?

 

[bp]

You are an outlier, most men need closer to 100mg weekly split up two or more time per week.

so im not a complete anomaly then This does happen and there are guys out there using similar doses and protocols?

 

[madman]

My math has been on point, insulin 27g pins,
0.25ml per pin , twice per week ( 250mg test e/ 1ml) = 125mg test e weekly

i must admit that im worried the test is severly overdosed.

Doesnt enanthate saturated the oil at around 300mg per 1ml, making crazy overdosing impossible?

Whats the highest level of overdosing youve witnessed in your time?

Depends on the type and % of solvent used as a 300-400 mg/ml concentration can be done.....mind you the 400 mg/ml strengths are various esters.

Although Denkall's T400 is 188 mg test e 187 mg of test cyp and 25 mgs of test prop

Still find it hard to believe you are hitting 2500+ TT on such protocol and your SHBG is only 31.3 nmol/L not high by any means.

 

[bp]

Depends on the type and % of solvent used as a 300-400 mg/ml concentration can be done.....mind you the 400 mg/ml strengths are various esters.

Although Denkall's T400 is 188 mg test e 187 mg of test cyp and 25 mgs of test prop

Still find it hard to believe you are hitting 2500+ TT on such protocol and your SHBG is only 31.3 nmol/L not high by any means.

Thats what ive seen too madman. high 200's - 300 seems to be the limit of strength in dose for testosterone enanthate.

Like you said its hard to believe the figures i got back from the lab.

With that being said though, if the test im using is overdosed, then hitting 2500ng/dl for testosterone still seems a tall order on the 125mg / week protocol dont you think? (seeing that if it is overdosed, 300mg/ml is about the upper limit)

Do you think it was massive sensitivity on my part to the HCG Madman? ( it was pregnyl i used, which ive read is the gold of hcg)

Do you think the HCG could be responsible for lifting my figures so high?

Theres a couple of posts ive come across where guys say that adding hcg almost doubled their test figures, even at standard protocol doses (500-1000 iu/week)

Ive pinned nothing now for 5 days (to allow for clearance of the test and E2), and am feeling better by the day. I plan to wait another 3 days before i start pinning again.
Just test E (no HCG).
With my basic calculations, my test will have dropped to around 720ng\dl by then, and ill implement a protocol of EoD pinning of 12.5mg Test E, which equates to around 45mg testE per week. I'll see how i feel on that protocol, then have some bloods draw in a month.
This equates to about a third of what i was pinning before, so, my test should come back at around a third of the original lab result ( a third of 2500.....around 800-850ng/dl), which seems about spot on to me.
And if on this new protocol my test figures are insanely low, then ill know it was the HCG that was the culprit. Does this sound decent strategy to you madman?

What you think?