Saw Palmetto....run or avoid.

[Davet]

I have read contradictory research on the above SP.
The Life extension team reckon its a must to run it whilst on T-Gel therapy to avoid prostate problems.
But other research indicates that it can push up E and also block Andro conversion.
The latest research I have read on prostate issues now points to the problem being excess estrogen that screws the prostate and not DHT as previously thought.
The research also indicates that Dht is required for libido, strength and muscle gains etc.

With that in mind it looks like its one to avoid ?

Whats your thoughts guys ?

I am running a 1000mg dose of Stinging Nettle root ( 2 X 500) daily to help nail SHBG issues.

Cheers guys
Davet

 

[Vince Carter]

I avoid, even the thought of androgen blocker bothers me enough that I won't touch it.

 

[HarryCat]

I took it for years and feel that it contributed to my PFS-like symptoms. I avoid it at all costs now.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I've heard too many comments similar to HarryCat's (PFS-type issues). I avoid it. What are the issues, you mentioned SHBG, that you're working with?

 

[Vince Carter]

I found it in a few too many Men's multi-vitamins and then LEFs own DHEA cream is loaded with it which seems contrary to logic.

 

[Weasel]

I avoid it.

I'd like to hear one of the Good Doc's input on this stuff.

 

[Steve Williams]

I found a couple of definitions for PFS. Are you talking about Post Finesteride Syndrome? If saw palmetto causes that, then stay away from it.

 

[HarryCat]

I found a couple of definitions for PFS. Are you talking about Post Finesteride Syndrome?

Yes. That is the one.

 

[Vince]

I'll show a old post I found. From another site. It may help some?


MERIDIAN VALLEY LABS...www.meridianvalleylab.com 1-425-271-8689

I just received Dr. Jonathan V. Wright's Nutrition and Healing February newsletter. He discusses a new male hormone test that men might want to be aware of. Besides finasteride (Proscar + Propecia + Avodart), even high doses of
saw palmetto can have a "pro-carcinogenic" effect, according to Dr. Wright. This new test is based on the research work of Dr. Otabek Imamov, MD, about the effect of blocking the conversion of testosterone to DHT (a pro-cancer form), which ALSO inhibits the production of 3b-Adiol, which has an anti-carcinogenic action.

FIRST COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE HORMONE TEST FOR PROSTATE CANCER RISK TO INCLUDE 3β-ANDROSTANEDIOL

by Dr. Barry Wheeler on September 24, 2010
Testosterone Hormone Replacement - Navigate These Waters Safer With New Hormone Tests

Dr. Dawn Huo, PhD researches innovative hormone testing at Meridian Valley Laboratories. She has created the first commercially available serum hormone test profile to include 3β,5α-androstanediol (3β-adiol) in the United States and Canada.

Some researchers believe that 3β-adiol may be a very important prostate cancer risk marker. This easy-to-take testosterone profile is currently available at Meridian Valley Laboratories and includes other prostate related markers that can help you check your prostate cancer risk.

In the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial (PCPT), 18,882 men over the age of 55 years with normal prostate exams and PSAs were given Finasteride.1 This drug prevents the production of DHT as well as 3β-adiol. Many researchers, after reviewing the results of this 7 year study, feel that while DHT levels are important, levels of 3β-adiol are also important.

A review by the Biology of Reproduction Journal states, “We believe that a higher incidence of low-differentiated tumors in the finasteride-treated arm observed in the PCPT is caused by altering the normal differentiation of prostatic epithelium in the environment lacking the natural ERb ligand—3β-androstanediol.”2 Translation: They believe 3β-adiol helps prevent higher grade (worse) prostate cancers.

The PCPT researchers concluded, “Finasteride prevents or delays the appearance of prostate cancer, but this possible benefit and a reduced risk of urinary problems must be weighed against sexual side-effects and the increased risk of high-grade prostate cancer.” These sexual side-effects include impotence, decreased desire for sex, and decreased ejaculatory volume.

This hormone profile will also include dihydrotestosterone (DHT), testosterone, and androstenedione, which are important markers related to prostate cancer risk and assist doctors providing testosterone replacement therapy. Dr. Huo has included 3β-adiol because the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial and the clinical experience of Dr. Jonathan Wright, MD – the father of bio-identical hormone replacement therapy – have provided evidence that the ratio of DHT to 3β-adiol may be more important than the amount of DHT alone.

Dr. Jonathan Wright, MD discusses 5AR Over-inihibition

Testosterone is converted to DHT via the 5α-reductase enzyme. DHT is a potent androgen and along with testosterone causes proliferation and secretion in the prostate gland (dedifferentiating) by activating androgen receptors.3 Then DHT is converted to 3β-adiol via a 3β-HSD reaction.3 3β-androstanediol is a differentiation (redifferentiating) agent that activates estrogen beta receptors.4 The process of cancer development is primarily a dedifferentiation process.

A study by the Cochrane Review found that 5α-reductase inhibitors have inadequate evidence to say they reduce mortality, in terms of prostate cancer.5 Elevated levels of DHT may increase male patients' risks of developing prostate cancer and a metabolite of DHT, 3β-adiol, may actually help prevent and reduce the grade of prostate cancers. The production of the this important metabolite is reduced by 5α-reductase inhibitors.

Standard testing such as PSA and yearly physical exams for men over 40 years old are still recommended. This prostate cancer risk test is especially useful for men receiving testosterone replacement therapy.

1. Thompson IM, Goodman PJ, Tangen CM, et al. The influence of finasteride on the development of prostate cancer. N Engl J Med 349(3):215–24, 2003.
2. O. Imamov, G.-J. Shim, M. Warner, and J.-A. Gustafsson “Estrogen Receptor beta in Health and Disease” Biol Reprod, November 1, 2005; 73(5): 866 – 871.
3. Weihua Z, Lathe R, Warner M, Gustafsson JA. “An endocrine pathway in the prostate, ERbeta, AR, 5alpha-androstane-3beta,17betadiol, and CYP7B1, regulates prostate growth.” Proc Natl Acad Sci US A 2002; 99:13589–13594.
4. Zhu X, Leav I, Leung YK, et al. Dynamic regulation of estrogen receptor-beta expression by DNA methylation during prostate cancer development and metastasis. Am J Pathol 2004;164:2003-12.
5. Wilt TJ, et al. Five-alpha-reductase Inhibitors for prostate cancer prevention. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2008 Apr 16;(2):CD007091.

Men's Prostate Health Test Profile Includes: Testosterone, DHT, 3β,5α-androstanediol, 3α,5α-androstanediol, and androstenedione (serum).
Testosterone Metabolite Profile

Testosterone Metabolization

Company History: Meridian Valley Laboratory is recognized as a World leader and authority on hormone testing for Bio-Identical Hormone Replacement Therapy. Having pioneered 24-hour urine hormone testing, we are able to provide you a level of expertise that is unparalleled.

 

[Chivato]

Great information on this thread. For years I have questioned the pros and cons of taking Saw Palmetto.

 

[Davet]

Saw pal

Great information on this thread. For years I have questioned the pros and cons of taking Saw Palmetto.

Hi CW

After my last bloods (Dec 2015) indicated that the T gel therapy had hardly improved my numbers...& the total lack of response from my doc.
I started to run stinging nettle root and .25mg to .5mg of arimidex maybe twice or three times a week.
Cured my night sweats, foggy head and headaches + made feel a lot more positive + my strength is up in the gym.....+ night and morning wood again.
So it feels like i'm on the right track.
Came across the article on saw palmetto on the life extension site so I thought I would run it by you guys before I introduced it to my diet.

Got next bloods in 2 weeks so hopefully i should know more.

I will pass on the SP.... sounds like trouble to me.

Thanks guys

 

[1Draw]

DaveT... Did the Stinging Nettle root lower your SHBG? If you could share some blood results before and after, would be
greatly appreciated. I also have an issue with high SHBG.

 

[Davet]

SP

DaveT... Did the Stinging Nettle root lower your SHBG? If you could share some blood results before and after, would be
greatly appreciated. I also have an issue with high SHBG.

Hi 1Draw

Got me next labs on the 14th....not sure if my frustrating doc has booked a full panel or just my T levels like she did last time.
If she hasn't ...(even though she promised a full panel) I have lined up a private clinic to take them.
Once I have them I will know more.
Monitoring my progress...I have put on around 8lbs in weight, I'm dropping body fat around my midriff and my strength is improving.
Things have improved since I have started using more gel sites with moisturiser....+ the arimidex + the stinging nettle root.....( i am watching me dosing of the arimidex closely).
I take one dose of the SNR dose in the middle of the night when I go for a p ensuring I take it on an empty stomach and the other 500mg dose around 30 mins b4 lunch.

Cheers 1D

 

[1Draw]

Thanks Davet... Just let me know if you don't mind.

 

[Steve Williams]

I have symptoms of bph and I was going to start taking saw palmetto to help, but I am convinced to stay away from it. What are good supplements and practices to incorporate to reduce the symptoms of bph?

 

[Vince Carter]

Consider daily Cialis/Tadalafil

 

[Steve Williams]

Any non prescription recommendations?

And can you provide a link to a source I can show my Doc if I want to go the Cialis route?

 

[CoastWatcher]

BPH is one of the specific indications for which Cialis can be prescribed as an "on-label" agent.

 

[Vince Carter]

Right, Cialis is specifically on-label for BPH. Not why I use it but it's there for you.