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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Clomid for PCT, fertility or low T
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 264871" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p>Welcome to Nelson's domain!</p><p></p><p>Sorry to hear about your heart attack must have been an eye opener.</p><p></p><p>Need to tread lightly on what kind of trough TT/FT levels you are running when on TRT and hoping you avoid the steroid merry go round as it is of no benefit long-term especially when it comes to cardiovascular health.</p><p></p><p>I agree that your best bet would be coming off T temporarily if you plan on having children soon.</p><p></p><p>You are always going to go back to baseline and highly doubtful your natty T levels are going to be robust seeing as you abused testosterone/possibly AAS and were on TRT doses over the last 14 years.</p><p></p><p>Will most likely end up hopping back on TRT.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>These last <u>4 years I've been trying to dial in a TRT dose</u>. Have tried many protocols always giving them the 6-8 week mark before pulling a test.</em></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>This is my test on <u>120mg of test per week after 6 weeks</u>: ( No A.I ) ( No HCG )</strong></p><p>ALBUMIN - 39 ( 35 - 50 )</p><p><strong>SHBG - 27 ( 18 - 54 )</strong></p><p>FSH and LH 0.3</p><p>Oestradiol - 260 ( 40 - 159 )</p><p><strong>Total Test - 48.5 ( 8 - 29 )</strong></p><p>Free Test - 1.52 ( 0.2 - 0.6 )</p><p>Free Androgen Index - 179 (24 - 104 )</p><p>Prolactin - 468 ( 86 - 324 )</p><p>Dhea - 3.5 ( 2.4 - 11.6 )</p><p></p><p><strong>After seeing the results I reduced my dose to <u>60mg per week and after 6 weeks</u> this was the results:</strong></p><p>ALBUMIN - 42 ( 35 - 50 )</p><p><strong>SHBG - 36 ( 18 - 54 )</strong></p><p>FSH and LH 0.3</p><p>Oestradiol - 149 ( 40 - 159 )</p><p><strong>Total Test - 24.3 ( 8 - 29 )</strong></p><p>Free Test - 0.5 ( 0.2 - 0.6 )</p><p>Free Androgen Index - 67 (24 - 104 )</p><p>Prolactin - 246 ( 86 - 324 )</p><p>Dhea - 4.4 ( 2.4 - 11.6 )</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Looking at the results on 60mg <u>everything seems good, but I felt worse</u>. Stayed at that dose, but added in HCG at 500iu 2x week for 6 weeks which blew my balls up, but it was hit or miss still on erection and libido.</em></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Two big red flag here looking over your previous protocols/labs.</p><p></p><p>On 120 mg T/week you were hitting a very high TT 48.5 nmol/L (1398 ng/dL) and you have fairly normal SHBG 27 nmol/L so your FT level would be through the roof as in absurdly high!</p><p></p><p>Doubtful you even used an accurate assay (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration) when testing FT but even than knowing your TT, SHBG and Albumin gives a descent estimate of where your cFT level sits and again with a whopping TT almost 1400 ng/dL and normal SHBG 27 nmol/L your <strong><em>FT 43.9 ng/dL level would be through the roof as in absurdly high!</em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em>[ATTACH=full]37008[/ATTACH]</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Kicker here is when were labs drawn as we always want to test at true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.</p><p></p><p>You made a big mistake by only giving the protocol 6 weeks which means jack shit when looking at the bigger picture.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately you lack the understanding of how exogenous T works.</p><p></p><p>When first starting TRT or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) and during this transition it is common for many to experience ups/downs as the body is trying to adapt to the increasing T levels or decreasing T levels when one is lowering the dose.</p><p></p><p>Even than once blood levels have stabilized (steady-state) it will still take time for the body to adapt to the new set-point over the following months and this is the critical time period when one needs to gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being.</p><p></p><p>Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) to truly say whether it was a success or failure.</p><p></p><p>This is where many make the mistake and end up on that never ending merry go round tweaking their protocols every 6 weeks because they do not feel good.</p><p></p><p>Many lack the understanding of the PKs and how exogenous T works in the body.</p><p></p><p>You only gave the protocol 6 weeks than went and cut your dose in half.</p><p></p><p>120--->60 mg/week and you are bound to feel unwell over the following weeks as blood levels are declining and it is normal to experience this.</p><p></p><p>Even than you are only 6 weeks in and again it will take a few more months for the body to adapt to your new set point.</p><p></p><p>Top it off that you are still hitting a robust TT 24.3 nmol/L (700 ng/dL) and your SHBG is still normal 36 nmoL/L so your FT level would be descent.</p><p></p><p>Again doubtful you even used an accurate assay (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration) when testing FT but even than knowing your TT, SHBG and Albumin gives a descent estimate of where your cFT level sits and again with a robust TT 700 ng/dL and normal SHBG 36 nmol/L your <strong><em>FT 15.1 ng/dL level would be descent.</em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em>[ATTACH=full]37009[/ATTACH]</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Kicker here is when were labs drawn as we always want to test at true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.</p><p></p><p>Also keep in mind that when using/relying upon the cFTV as of now it tends to overestimate FT when compared to the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.</p><p></p><p>You left out some of the most important blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit!</p><p></p><p>Need to include/post these in your labs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>post #6/8</em></strong></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/fsh-and-hcg-dual-therapy-may-result-in-the-more-rapid-recovery-of-sperm-to-the-ejaculate.22230/[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/looking-for-published-papers-on-trt-hcg-fsh.26961/#post-245382[/URL]</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/has-anyone-had-success-in-restoring-fertility-with-fsh.26677/#post-241647[/URL]</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/hcg-restart-attempt.21470/#post-213591[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/fertility-after-exogenous-t-replacement.26385/[/URL]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]37010[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/recovery-of-spermatogenesis-after-testosterone-use.25370/[/URL]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]37011[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]37012[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>post#7</em></strong></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/clomiphene-citrate-a-potential-alternative-for-tth-in-hypogonadal-males.27343/[/URL]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 264871, member: 13851"] Welcome to Nelson's domain! Sorry to hear about your heart attack must have been an eye opener. Need to tread lightly on what kind of trough TT/FT levels you are running when on TRT and hoping you avoid the steroid merry go round as it is of no benefit long-term especially when it comes to cardiovascular health. I agree that your best bet would be coming off T temporarily if you plan on having children soon. You are always going to go back to baseline and highly doubtful your natty T levels are going to be robust seeing as you abused testosterone/possibly AAS and were on TRT doses over the last 14 years. Will most likely end up hopping back on TRT. [B][I]These last [U]4 years I've been trying to dial in a TRT dose[/U]. Have tried many protocols always giving them the 6-8 week mark before pulling a test.[/I] This is my test on [U]120mg of test per week after 6 weeks[/U]: ( No A.I ) ( No HCG )[/B] ALBUMIN - 39 ( 35 - 50 ) [B]SHBG - 27 ( 18 - 54 )[/B] FSH and LH 0.3 Oestradiol - 260 ( 40 - 159 ) [B]Total Test - 48.5 ( 8 - 29 )[/B] Free Test - 1.52 ( 0.2 - 0.6 ) Free Androgen Index - 179 (24 - 104 ) Prolactin - 468 ( 86 - 324 ) Dhea - 3.5 ( 2.4 - 11.6 ) [B]After seeing the results I reduced my dose to [U]60mg per week and after 6 weeks[/U] this was the results:[/B] ALBUMIN - 42 ( 35 - 50 ) [B]SHBG - 36 ( 18 - 54 )[/B] FSH and LH 0.3 Oestradiol - 149 ( 40 - 159 ) [B]Total Test - 24.3 ( 8 - 29 )[/B] Free Test - 0.5 ( 0.2 - 0.6 ) Free Androgen Index - 67 (24 - 104 ) Prolactin - 246 ( 86 - 324 ) Dhea - 4.4 ( 2.4 - 11.6 ) [B][I]Looking at the results on 60mg [U]everything seems good, but I felt worse[/U]. Stayed at that dose, but added in HCG at 500iu 2x week for 6 weeks which blew my balls up, but it was hit or miss still on erection and libido.[/I][/B] Two big red flag here looking over your previous protocols/labs. On 120 mg T/week you were hitting a very high TT 48.5 nmol/L (1398 ng/dL) and you have fairly normal SHBG 27 nmol/L so your FT level would be through the roof as in absurdly high! Doubtful you even used an accurate assay (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration) when testing FT but even than knowing your TT, SHBG and Albumin gives a descent estimate of where your cFT level sits and again with a whopping TT almost 1400 ng/dL and normal SHBG 27 nmol/L your [B][I]FT 43.9 ng/dL level would be through the roof as in absurdly high! [ATTACH type="full" alt="1694877958804.png"]37008[/ATTACH][/I][/B] Kicker here is when were labs drawn as we always want to test at true trough (lowest point) before your next injection. You made a big mistake by only giving the protocol 6 weeks which means jack shit when looking at the bigger picture. Unfortunately you lack the understanding of how exogenous T works. When first starting TRT or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) and during this transition it is common for many to experience ups/downs as the body is trying to adapt to the increasing T levels or decreasing T levels when one is lowering the dose. Even than once blood levels have stabilized (steady-state) it will still take time for the body to adapt to the new set-point over the following months and this is the critical time period when one needs to gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being. Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) to truly say whether it was a success or failure. This is where many make the mistake and end up on that never ending merry go round tweaking their protocols every 6 weeks because they do not feel good. Many lack the understanding of the PKs and how exogenous T works in the body. You only gave the protocol 6 weeks than went and cut your dose in half. 120--->60 mg/week and you are bound to feel unwell over the following weeks as blood levels are declining and it is normal to experience this. Even than you are only 6 weeks in and again it will take a few more months for the body to adapt to your new set point. Top it off that you are still hitting a robust TT 24.3 nmol/L (700 ng/dL) and your SHBG is still normal 36 nmoL/L so your FT level would be descent. Again doubtful you even used an accurate assay (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration) when testing FT but even than knowing your TT, SHBG and Albumin gives a descent estimate of where your cFT level sits and again with a robust TT 700 ng/dL and normal SHBG 36 nmol/L your [B][I]FT 15.1 ng/dL level would be descent. [ATTACH type="full" alt="Screenshot (28489).png"]37009[/ATTACH][/I][/B] Kicker here is when were labs drawn as we always want to test at true trough (lowest point) before your next injection. Also keep in mind that when using/relying upon the cFTV as of now it tends to overestimate FT when compared to the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis. You left out some of the most important blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit! Need to include/post these in your labs. [B][I]post #6/8[/I][/B] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/fsh-and-hcg-dual-therapy-may-result-in-the-more-rapid-recovery-of-sperm-to-the-ejaculate.22230/[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/looking-for-published-papers-on-trt-hcg-fsh.26961/#post-245382[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/has-anyone-had-success-in-restoring-fertility-with-fsh.26677/#post-241647[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/hcg-restart-attempt.21470/#post-213591[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/fertility-after-exogenous-t-replacement.26385/[/URL] [ATTACH type="full" alt="Screenshot (28485).png"]37010[/ATTACH] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/recovery-of-spermatogenesis-after-testosterone-use.25370/[/URL] [ATTACH type="full" alt="Screenshot (28486).png"]37011[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="Screenshot (28487).png"]37012[/ATTACH] [B][I]post#7[/I][/B] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/clomiphene-citrate-a-potential-alternative-for-tth-in-hypogonadal-males.27343/[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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