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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Clomid for PCT, fertility or low T
Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene
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<blockquote data-quote="JustPanicNoDisco" data-source="post: 234542" data-attributes="member: 42100"><p>Great stuff, [USER=38109]@Cataceous[/USER] </p><p></p><p>I'd like to hear your opinion regarding using GnRH alone as a restart tool -- a potential application you referenced in your initial post.</p><p></p><p>I've finally decided to get off TRT. I started exogenous T to see if it could help with symptoms of PSSD (post-SSRI...disaster). After playing around with various esters, dosing, schedules, etc., I've concluded it's time to end this 2-year experiment. I feel worse than ever sexually; moreover, I've developed a slew of other symptoms (and even chronic illnesses) that I did not have prior to starting TRT.</p><p></p><p>I'm currently tapering down, per the recommendation of the doctor with whom I'm working. We agreed that it would be pointless to extend the taper into the "low T" territory, so I plan to cease injections when I hit a daily release of ~4mg test. After cessation, I expect it to take roughly two weeks to fully clear my body. </p><p></p><p>Onto the application of GnRH:</p><p></p><p>1) I seemingly "crashed" my estrogen and never recovered. I've been dealing with a huge number of "low E2" sides for the past year and a half. I now respond very poorly to anything that antagonizes estrogen or has AI properties; as such, I plan to avoid using SERMs are all cost. </p><p></p><p>2) I see that you tried GnRH in the absence of enclom, testing whether it would work without as much negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary from estrogen and testosterone, respectively. It doesn't look like you had any numbers for this trial, as you experienced testicular pain. </p><p></p><p>I am thinking of trying something similar to this. From what I see online, it typically takes people 9-12 months, on average, to normalize their HPTA after long-term supression. Do you think that starting GnRH without enclomiphene would potentially work to "prime" my pituitary and testicles *before* coming off TRT totally (but while tapering down onto a very low dose, just prior to quitting)? I know there's no certainty here; it just depends whether the pituitary would signal with the current level of suppression from the exogenous hormones still in the blood. Given the very short half-life of GnRH, I see no drawbacks; it shouldn't cause suppression of the anterior pituitary even if it doesn't offer any additional benefit. </p><p></p><p>When I've finally cleared my body totally of TRT, I think it makes sense to run GnRH/gonadorelin in a pulsatile manner, as you've done, in order to accelerate the recovery of the HPTA. I understand that injecting GnRH bypasses the signaling of the hypothalamus. Do you see any risk in such a protocol?</p><p></p><p>As I see it:</p><p></p><p>It seems the hardest part of a restart is getting the pituitary and leydig cells to signal again, as both have become desensitized in the presence of very, very low levels of upstream hormones (GnRH, LHRH, LH). Following that logic, it seems to make sense to get these systems working, and the hypothalamus would follow. However, I do understand that the hypothalamus is mediated by negative feedback, so this could also raise hormone (although I doubt much, at least for a while) levels enough to slow that process down.</p><p></p><p>I know we don't have research to determine with any certainty what the best approach is; I'd just like to hear your thoughts regarding my current proposal. </p><p></p><p>I'm writing this from a very, very foggy brain. Apologies for any incoherence. </p><p></p><p>Thanks!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JustPanicNoDisco, post: 234542, member: 42100"] Great stuff, [USER=38109]@Cataceous[/USER] I'd like to hear your opinion regarding using GnRH alone as a restart tool -- a potential application you referenced in your initial post. I've finally decided to get off TRT. I started exogenous T to see if it could help with symptoms of PSSD (post-SSRI...disaster). After playing around with various esters, dosing, schedules, etc., I've concluded it's time to end this 2-year experiment. I feel worse than ever sexually; moreover, I've developed a slew of other symptoms (and even chronic illnesses) that I did not have prior to starting TRT. I'm currently tapering down, per the recommendation of the doctor with whom I'm working. We agreed that it would be pointless to extend the taper into the "low T" territory, so I plan to cease injections when I hit a daily release of ~4mg test. After cessation, I expect it to take roughly two weeks to fully clear my body. Onto the application of GnRH: 1) I seemingly "crashed" my estrogen and never recovered. I've been dealing with a huge number of "low E2" sides for the past year and a half. I now respond very poorly to anything that antagonizes estrogen or has AI properties; as such, I plan to avoid using SERMs are all cost. 2) I see that you tried GnRH in the absence of enclom, testing whether it would work without as much negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary from estrogen and testosterone, respectively. It doesn't look like you had any numbers for this trial, as you experienced testicular pain. I am thinking of trying something similar to this. From what I see online, it typically takes people 9-12 months, on average, to normalize their HPTA after long-term supression. Do you think that starting GnRH without enclomiphene would potentially work to "prime" my pituitary and testicles *before* coming off TRT totally (but while tapering down onto a very low dose, just prior to quitting)? I know there's no certainty here; it just depends whether the pituitary would signal with the current level of suppression from the exogenous hormones still in the blood. Given the very short half-life of GnRH, I see no drawbacks; it shouldn't cause suppression of the anterior pituitary even if it doesn't offer any additional benefit. When I've finally cleared my body totally of TRT, I think it makes sense to run GnRH/gonadorelin in a pulsatile manner, as you've done, in order to accelerate the recovery of the HPTA. I understand that injecting GnRH bypasses the signaling of the hypothalamus. Do you see any risk in such a protocol? As I see it: It seems the hardest part of a restart is getting the pituitary and leydig cells to signal again, as both have become desensitized in the presence of very, very low levels of upstream hormones (GnRH, LHRH, LH). Following that logic, it seems to make sense to get these systems working, and the hypothalamus would follow. However, I do understand that the hypothalamus is mediated by negative feedback, so this could also raise hormone (although I doubt much, at least for a while) levels enough to slow that process down. I know we don't have research to determine with any certainty what the best approach is; I'd just like to hear your thoughts regarding my current proposal. I'm writing this from a very, very foggy brain. Apologies for any incoherence. Thanks! [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Clomid for PCT, fertility or low T
Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene
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