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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Clomid for PCT, fertility or low T
Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene
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<blockquote data-quote="Cataceous" data-source="post: 199955" data-attributes="member: 38109"><p>My protocol is fairly stable now and is outlined <a href="https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=16143.0" target="_blank">here</a>. I continue to do some small-scale tweaking and will report if I learn anything interesting.</p><p></p><p>Regarding GnRH, did you see the <a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/gonadorelin-alternative-to-hcg-kisspeptin-a-peptide-that-is-not-approved-for-compounding.20969/post-194853" target="_blank">claims of Royal Medical Center</a>? Direct info <a href="https://www.royalmedicalcenters.com/gonadorelin/" target="_blank">here</a>. They are saying that infrequent large GnRH doses produce subsequent (single?) pulses of LH and FSH that are physiological in size. What's less clear is whether this protocol results in subjective benefits. RMC is implying that results are comparable to what's obtained with hCG, but this seems questionable. We really need to see some comments from guys on this protocol. </p><p></p><p>Getting back to your question, it appears that for most guys on regular TRT, enclomiphene is not very helpful. There is direct suppression by testosterone at the hypothalamus, which prevents kisspeptin creation, which in turn prevents GnRH creation, and so on. Unfortunately we don't have some perfect SARM that blocks androgens at the hypothalamus and has no other effects. So we're left with three strategies:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lower the (average?) serum androgen level by enough to avoid the suppression. Using Natesto is one way to accomplish this, and it suggests that relatively short and large androgen pulses are not very suppressive. Perhaps in some cases there would be a dose of propionate that's low enough to allow HPTA operation but high enough to prevent hypogonadism.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bypass the suppression at the hypothalamus with exogenous kisspeptin. The research on this looks promising [<a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3902960/" target="_blank">1</a>,<a href="https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1038/clpt.2010.204" target="_blank">2</a>,<a href="https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/8/E1228/2833644" target="_blank">3</a>], but we need to know more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bypass the suppression at the hypothalamus with exogenous GnRH.</li> </ul><p>Each of these would work better with enclomiphene, because estradiol works against production of LH and FSH by the pituitary.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cataceous, post: 199955, member: 38109"] My protocol is fairly stable now and is outlined [URL='https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=16143.0']here[/URL]. I continue to do some small-scale tweaking and will report if I learn anything interesting. Regarding GnRH, did you see the [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/gonadorelin-alternative-to-hcg-kisspeptin-a-peptide-that-is-not-approved-for-compounding.20969/post-194853']claims of Royal Medical Center[/URL]? Direct info [URL='https://www.royalmedicalcenters.com/gonadorelin/']here[/URL]. They are saying that infrequent large GnRH doses produce subsequent (single?) pulses of LH and FSH that are physiological in size. What's less clear is whether this protocol results in subjective benefits. RMC is implying that results are comparable to what's obtained with hCG, but this seems questionable. We really need to see some comments from guys on this protocol. Getting back to your question, it appears that for most guys on regular TRT, enclomiphene is not very helpful. There is direct suppression by testosterone at the hypothalamus, which prevents kisspeptin creation, which in turn prevents GnRH creation, and so on. Unfortunately we don't have some perfect SARM that blocks androgens at the hypothalamus and has no other effects. So we're left with three strategies: [LIST] [*]Lower the (average?) serum androgen level by enough to avoid the suppression. Using Natesto is one way to accomplish this, and it suggests that relatively short and large androgen pulses are not very suppressive. Perhaps in some cases there would be a dose of propionate that's low enough to allow HPTA operation but high enough to prevent hypogonadism. [*]Bypass the suppression at the hypothalamus with exogenous kisspeptin. The research on this looks promising [[URL='https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3902960/']1[/URL],[URL='https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1038/clpt.2010.204']2[/URL],[URL='https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/8/E1228/2833644']3[/URL]], but we need to know more. [*]Bypass the suppression at the hypothalamus with exogenous GnRH. [/LIST] Each of these would work better with enclomiphene, because estradiol works against production of LH and FSH by the pituitary. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Clomid for PCT, fertility or low T
Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene
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