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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Official Natesto Thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Fortunate" data-source="post: 214889" data-attributes="member: 42264"><p>So, I got my lab results back. Note, these were drawn almost an hour after my AM Natesto dose. Also, I had been off hCG for two weeks prior to the labs (I normally injection 100IU daily). See below for results and comments:</p><p></p><p>Total Test: 497 ng/dl</p><p>Free Test: 67.5 pg/ml (46.0-224.0)</p><p>Estradiol: 30</p><p>HGB: 16.6 (13.2-17.1)</p><p>HCT: 49.5 (38.5-50)</p><p></p><p>Notes:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Labs done at Quest</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I am not sure, but don't believe Estradiol was LCMSMS</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">These labs were done after running about fours weeks of Natesto<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">But, just prior to this four week period, I was using Xyosted at various doses</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">During the four week period, I used Xyosted once, and decided not to go back to it</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Therefore, this is not a "pure" four week run with no other exogenous sources</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Had I waited a bit longer, ie 90 minutes instead of 60 minutes, it is possible my peak would have been higher</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As above, I held hCG for two weeks prior to these labs. I normally use 100IU/day</li> </ul><p>Six months prior to these labs, I got labs drawn one day after injecting with 25mg of enanthate, but while not using Natesto that day (not enough time to see much of a rise in test from the enanthate). Those labs would be a reasonable estimate of what a trough looks like on Natesto. My total test was 174.77 (264-916) with free test at 3.30 pg/ml (4.80-25.70). Caveat: that were are two different labs with different reference ranges on free T. I don't fully understand why the numbers and ranges are so different since they both report pg/ml.</p><p></p><p>I was hoping that T would have been a bit higher, but, as above, I suspect my peak is a bit higher than the number here, <u>and</u>, I further suspect hCG bumps me up a bit more.</p><p></p><p>I am the odd duck around here, as the only guy (that I know of) who consistently uses Natesto, and who happens to use hCG with it. As [USER=38109]@Cataceous[/USER] pointed out elsewhere, using hCG in the context of Natesto does not make great physiologic sense. However, having been on and off hCG several times, I am pretty confident in saying that overall, I feel better when on hCG. I don't know if it's a direct effect or indirect due to some small bump in test.</p><p></p><p>From time to time, I explore alternatives to my Natesto/hCG combination, and always come back to the conclusion that Natesto with hCG is the most tolerable form of TRT. I have virtually no side effects (other than acne, that is likely hCG) and I think I feel "good enough". I think I feel most "at home" mentally on this regimen. There are times that I have been on injections, and I for sure feel more energy, but I don't feel like myself. I suspect I have a narrow therapeutic range: my body may want a little more test than it's willing to make, but not a lot more. I also suspect many guys on this forum may be in the same boat. I therefore continue to recommend trying Natesto with hCG.</p><p></p><p>My rationale for repeatedly trying other forms of TRT has typically been driven by a desire to find something more convenient (although, I now have Natesto down to a science and it's very easy); but, I also think I have a bit of FOMO. I have experienced a few honeymoon periods on injections and I hear guys saying: "I fine tuned things, and my sweet spot is to inject X every Y days. I feel great on this protocol." That sweet spot may exist for me, but I certainly haven't found it. Like [USER=38590]@readalot[/USER], it does not take much for me to feel like my heart is working harder than it should when using injections. It's an odd combination of feeling energized and charged up, but also feeling like the heart is pumping a bit harder than it's meant to.</p><p></p><p>A little while back, I supplemented my Natesto/hCG regimen with a small amount of cream on the upper arm. I did it for several months and actually felt pretty good on it. I tried to go back to that recently, and now, if I use even a small dose of cream, I feel over the top for a few hours, after which I feel a major crash. TRT can be a really slippery situation.</p><p></p><p>So, while I can't promise I won't get curious about some goldilocks regimen I haven't yet tried, I am pretty content knowing that my Natesto/hCG regimen works pretty well. See my other posts on what I believe are the benefits of Natesto. As a parting thought, I will add one (unproven) theory: I think things have the potential to improve over time while on Natesto. I think the longer you use it, the more your own exogenous hormones normalize and stabilize. Now, being on hCG probably negates that effect, which is why I tried to hold it for the few weeks recently. I suspect to really answer the question, I'd have to go off hCG for a longer period of time while staying on Natesto.</p><p></p><p>Bottom line: Natesto is very safe and sufficiently effective. I think it keeps me closer to my normal physiology than most other forms of TRT. I encourage more guys to trial it and report back here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fortunate, post: 214889, member: 42264"] So, I got my lab results back. Note, these were drawn almost an hour after my AM Natesto dose. Also, I had been off hCG for two weeks prior to the labs (I normally injection 100IU daily). See below for results and comments: Total Test: 497 ng/dl Free Test: 67.5 pg/ml (46.0-224.0) Estradiol: 30 HGB: 16.6 (13.2-17.1) HCT: 49.5 (38.5-50) Notes: [LIST] [*]Labs done at Quest [*]I am not sure, but don't believe Estradiol was LCMSMS [*]These labs were done after running about fours weeks of Natesto [LIST] [*]But, just prior to this four week period, I was using Xyosted at various doses [*]During the four week period, I used Xyosted once, and decided not to go back to it [*]Therefore, this is not a "pure" four week run with no other exogenous sources [/LIST] [*]Had I waited a bit longer, ie 90 minutes instead of 60 minutes, it is possible my peak would have been higher [*]As above, I held hCG for two weeks prior to these labs. I normally use 100IU/day [/LIST] Six months prior to these labs, I got labs drawn one day after injecting with 25mg of enanthate, but while not using Natesto that day (not enough time to see much of a rise in test from the enanthate). Those labs would be a reasonable estimate of what a trough looks like on Natesto. My total test was 174.77 (264-916) with free test at 3.30 pg/ml (4.80-25.70). Caveat: that were are two different labs with different reference ranges on free T. I don't fully understand why the numbers and ranges are so different since they both report pg/ml. I was hoping that T would have been a bit higher, but, as above, I suspect my peak is a bit higher than the number here, [U]and[/U], I further suspect hCG bumps me up a bit more. I am the odd duck around here, as the only guy (that I know of) who consistently uses Natesto, and who happens to use hCG with it. As [USER=38109]@Cataceous[/USER] pointed out elsewhere, using hCG in the context of Natesto does not make great physiologic sense. However, having been on and off hCG several times, I am pretty confident in saying that overall, I feel better when on hCG. I don't know if it's a direct effect or indirect due to some small bump in test. From time to time, I explore alternatives to my Natesto/hCG combination, and always come back to the conclusion that Natesto with hCG is the most tolerable form of TRT. I have virtually no side effects (other than acne, that is likely hCG) and I think I feel "good enough". I think I feel most "at home" mentally on this regimen. There are times that I have been on injections, and I for sure feel more energy, but I don't feel like myself. I suspect I have a narrow therapeutic range: my body may want a little more test than it's willing to make, but not a lot more. I also suspect many guys on this forum may be in the same boat. I therefore continue to recommend trying Natesto with hCG. My rationale for repeatedly trying other forms of TRT has typically been driven by a desire to find something more convenient (although, I now have Natesto down to a science and it's very easy); but, I also think I have a bit of FOMO. I have experienced a few honeymoon periods on injections and I hear guys saying: "I fine tuned things, and my sweet spot is to inject X every Y days. I feel great on this protocol." That sweet spot may exist for me, but I certainly haven't found it. Like [USER=38590]@readalot[/USER], it does not take much for me to feel like my heart is working harder than it should when using injections. It's an odd combination of feeling energized and charged up, but also feeling like the heart is pumping a bit harder than it's meant to. A little while back, I supplemented my Natesto/hCG regimen with a small amount of cream on the upper arm. I did it for several months and actually felt pretty good on it. I tried to go back to that recently, and now, if I use even a small dose of cream, I feel over the top for a few hours, after which I feel a major crash. TRT can be a really slippery situation. So, while I can't promise I won't get curious about some goldilocks regimen I haven't yet tried, I am pretty content knowing that my Natesto/hCG regimen works pretty well. See my other posts on what I believe are the benefits of Natesto. As a parting thought, I will add one (unproven) theory: I think things have the potential to improve over time while on Natesto. I think the longer you use it, the more your own exogenous hormones normalize and stabilize. Now, being on hCG probably negates that effect, which is why I tried to hold it for the few weeks recently. I suspect to really answer the question, I'd have to go off hCG for a longer period of time while staying on Natesto. Bottom line: Natesto is very safe and sufficiently effective. I think it keeps me closer to my normal physiology than most other forms of TRT. I encourage more guys to trial it and report back here. [/QUOTE]
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