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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Not tolerating Test Prop?
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<blockquote data-quote="Cataceous" data-source="post: 193204" data-attributes="member: 38109"><p>In the GnRH experiment it's not for sure that a testosterone dose reduction is required. Androgens are directly suppressive at the hypothalamus, but not at the pituitary. Exogenous GnRH is bypassing the hypothalamus. On the other hand, estrogens are suppressive at the pituitary, and more testosterone means more estradiol. This suppression is counteracted by the enclomiphene, so the answer depends on the relative strength of enclomiphene in blocking estrogen at the pituitary. A high enough dose of the SERM probably could obviate a need for less exogenous testosterone. However, the actions of SERMs are not as well characterized as I might like, and it remains possible that they block estrogens at places where we want them. Therefore I try to minimize the dose.</p><p></p><p>I'm certainly interested in seeing other reports about GnRH use; they are virtually nonexistent except for the guys finding out that large doses once a week don't do much.</p><p></p><p>When I use propionate, morning dosing gives a better approximation to natural serum levels. Testosterone rises quickly to a peak within 2-4 hours. I suppose the best approximation would be to wake up at 2-4 am to take the injection. But taking it on waking works well for me. Injections before bed, even with longer esters, invariably interfere with my sleep. If you've tried both and nightly injections feel better then that's reason enough to continue. But it will be tough for you to measure peak or trough serum testosterone this way.</p><p></p><p>To get a trough T measurement I just go to the lab first thing in the morning before injecting. For a peak reading I inject first thing as usual and then go to the lab after 2-3 hours. Lately I've preferred peak measurements because people think you're still hypogonadal if you report TT at 300-500 ng/dL, even though these are quite comparable to natural trough values. Lab values for natural testosterone levels are based on peaks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cataceous, post: 193204, member: 38109"] In the GnRH experiment it's not for sure that a testosterone dose reduction is required. Androgens are directly suppressive at the hypothalamus, but not at the pituitary. Exogenous GnRH is bypassing the hypothalamus. On the other hand, estrogens are suppressive at the pituitary, and more testosterone means more estradiol. This suppression is counteracted by the enclomiphene, so the answer depends on the relative strength of enclomiphene in blocking estrogen at the pituitary. A high enough dose of the SERM probably could obviate a need for less exogenous testosterone. However, the actions of SERMs are not as well characterized as I might like, and it remains possible that they block estrogens at places where we want them. Therefore I try to minimize the dose. I'm certainly interested in seeing other reports about GnRH use; they are virtually nonexistent except for the guys finding out that large doses once a week don't do much. When I use propionate, morning dosing gives a better approximation to natural serum levels. Testosterone rises quickly to a peak within 2-4 hours. I suppose the best approximation would be to wake up at 2-4 am to take the injection. But taking it on waking works well for me. Injections before bed, even with longer esters, invariably interfere with my sleep. If you've tried both and nightly injections feel better then that's reason enough to continue. But it will be tough for you to measure peak or trough serum testosterone this way. To get a trough T measurement I just go to the lab first thing in the morning before injecting. For a peak reading I inject first thing as usual and then go to the lab after 2-3 hours. Lately I've preferred peak measurements because people think you're still hypogonadal if you report TT at 300-500 ng/dL, even though these are quite comparable to natural trough values. Lab values for natural testosterone levels are based on peaks. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Not tolerating Test Prop?
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