ExcelMale
Menu
Home
What's new
Latest activity
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Videos
Lab Tests
Doctor Finder
Buy Books
About Us
Men’s Health Coaching
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More options
Contact us
Close Menu
Forums
Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
NO HCG: Dr. Abraham Morgentaler, Dr. Rand McClain, and Jay Campbell??
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Nelson Vergel" data-source="post: 43575" data-attributes="member: 3"><p>Mason Woolf I'd love to hear more about this. Hopefully some of these guys will respond.</p><p>Like · June 11 at 12:35pm</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh Any experience with hcg for me has never ended well after about 4-5 weeks even if dosing was really low. I may use it cyclical in the future but for no more than 2 weeks at a time.</p><p>Like · June 11 at 1:02pm</p><p>Kapil Bhatia</p><p>Kapil Bhatia Chad Hamzeh In what way did your experience of HCG use not end well around the 02 week mark?? Could you elaborate ?? Thanks in advance ??</p><p>Like · June 13 at 5:27pm</p><p>Calvin Smith</p><p>Calvin Smith What happened with the "hcg"?</p><p>Like · June 11 at 1:54pm</p><p>Paolo Altoé</p><p>Paolo Altoé Glauber Marcius; Gustavo Medeiros</p><p>Like · 1 · June 11 at 2:21pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler We must not forget there are LH receptors all over the body--they would not be there were there not a reason for them. The LH receptors in the more peripheral (emotional) centers of the brain reward us with a sense of well-being. It also takes LH to ge...See More</p><p>Unlike · 9 · June 11 at 3:57pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler Dr. Mark Gordon does not regularly use HCG, but he said on stage (AMMG Orlando) a few weeks ago he does not fully suppress LH, so "it stays above 1.0".</p><p>Like · June 11 at 3:58pm</p><p>Darko Markovic</p><p>Darko Markovic How is possible not to supress LH on TRT ? </p><p>Like · 1 · June 12 at 12:56pm · Edited</p><p>David Tomić</p><p>David Tomić magic</p><p>Like · June 14 at 5:42am</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler Nelson Vergel, didn't you just post a fascinating study on the StAR?</p><p>Like · June 11 at 3:59pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler The one-and-only Dr. Eugene Shippen is masterful in his use of HCG, BTW.</p><p>Like · June 11 at 3:59pm</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh I find I can use HCG for 2-3 weeks at a time, every 2-3 months or so, with no ill effects. But like clockwork, each time I've gone past 5 weeks, even at a dose of 100 per day, it doesn't turn out well. So for my biochemistry I guess, it has a place, just not always on.</p><p>Like · 1 · June 11 at 4:00pm</p><p>Kapil Bhatia</p><p>Kapil Bhatia What I'll effects do you get around the 05 week mark??</p><p>Like · June 13 at 5:30pm</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh Lot's of acne, libido drops, high estrogen symptoms, and my labs confirm it. A friend of mine gets the same around 8 weeks, but obviously lots of people do it long term without issues.</p><p>Like · 2 · June 13 at 5:51pm</p><p>View more replies</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler Been using LD HCG therapy since 2002, with great results. I want nearly all my TRT patients on it. "Backfilling the Pathways" is why our guys do better.</p><p>Like · 2 · June 13 at 5:45am</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh I suppose not everyone is the same in this regard. I was recently advised at defy to drop the hcg after my last labs and symptoms around the 5 week mark. As mentioned, it works great for me for a couple weeks, but seems to increase E for me by a good amount, has happened every time, whether on T or not. I think for me there is value in cycling it.</p><p>Like · June 13 at 1:09pm</p><p>Kapil Bhatia</p><p>Kapil Bhatia Chad Hamzeh what symptoms do you get around the 05 week mark???</p><p>Like · June 13 at 5:20pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler As a reminder, starting TRT shuts down your LH. HCG is a mimic of LH. LH is needed all over the body, and is our natural (healthy) state of being.</p><p>Like · 4 · June 13 at 5:46am</p><p>Jason Petty</p><p>Jason Petty What is the Average Dosage</p><p>Of HCG for Guys on 100mg Cyp per week? I know everyone is Diff just wondering the Average is all</p><p>Like · 1 · June 13 at 6:30am</p><p>Kirk Yager</p><p>Kirk Yager You may find this interesting, DrCrisler.</p><p> </p><p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3274763/...See" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3274763/...See</a> More</p><p> </p><p>Progesterone Synthesis in the Nervous System: Implications for…</p><p>NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV</p><p>Like · Remove Preview · 1 · June 13 at 9:49am · Edited</p><p>Gene Devine</p><p>Gene Devine I've stated it many times; one can't shut down a hormone like LH and think it's normal and healthy...it's not!</p><p>Like · 2 · June 13 at 8:16am</p><p>Mason Woolf</p><p>Mason Woolf Seems entirely logical to me. Would love to hear the reasoning behind Jay Campbell and Rand McClain not using it</p><p>Like · June 13 at 8:39am</p><p>Kai Vester</p><p>Kai Vester -</p><p>Like · June 13 at 10:55am</p><p>Rand McClain</p><p>Rand McClain I prescribe HCG for secondary hypogonadism, but also for cosmetic (prevention of testicular atrophy) and fertility (avoiding Leydig cell senescence) indications. In addition, HCG acts as a TRH mimic so it can boosts one's "idle speed" a bit often times...See More</p><p>Unlike · 9 · June 13 at 12:42pm</p><p>Kai Vester</p><p>Kai Vester Would be interested to hear you hash this question out on YouTube sometime at length!!but great answer! And thank you for your service to us all</p><p>Like · 2 · June 13 at 12:50pm</p><p>Mason Woolf</p><p>Mason Woolf Rand McClain Totally understand if you don't want to answer this, but do you personally use HCG and if not why?</p><p>Like · June 13 at 1:00pm</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Nelson Vergel</p><p>Nelson Vergel OMG. Rand McClain is in the house !</p><p>Like · 8 · June 13 at 1:28pm</p><p>Lewis Wong</p><p>Lewis Wong Kelvin Guzmán</p><p>Like · 1 · June 14 at 4:41am</p><p>Kelvin Guzmán</p><p>Kelvin Guzmán Some people feel better without HCG and don't get atrophy/care about fertility.</p><p>Like · 1 · June 14 at 7:41am</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler True, there asre some guys who just can't take any HCG without it causing problems. I wish I knew why.</p><p>Like · 2 · June 14 at 11:56am</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh If you ever figure it out let me know lol <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>Like · June 14 at 12:59pm</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Kelvin Guzmán</p><p>Kelvin Guzmán Who knows, someone may be on TRT+HCG and might feel better without it.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 7:42am</p><p>Gene Devine</p><p>Gene Devine Onecan't shut down a hormone like LH and think it's normal and healthy...it's not. It's there for a reason. Not to replace it with an analog is counter intuitive to all our efforts in anti aging medicine.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 8:55am</p><p>Darko Markovic</p><p>Darko Markovic There are no long term studies and we don't know this Gene . HCG is analog, not natural LH, also if someone feels better without it, we don't have a right to claim the opposite...</p><p>Like · June 14 at 10:51am</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh So for someone in my position where hcg tends to be an issue after the 4-5 week point, it's healthier to add in an AI than simply cycling the hcg? I'd suspect not.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 9:55am</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler What kind of doses were you using?</p><p>Like · June 14 at 12:59pm</p><p>Chad Hamzeh</p><p>Chad Hamzeh 100/day was the prescribed protocol. What I noticed is when I was asked to drop it I tapered off and within a week started feeling better, and the best I felt was about 2 weeks off. I am quantifying "best" by sexual health... Its weird its almost like ...See More</p><p>Like · June 14 at 1:03pm</p><p>Gene Devine</p><p>Gene Devine Darko Markovic along your line of thinking then a man shouldn't replace low testosterone serum levels with a synthetic subsitute then. It's one in the same....we don't have long term studies to claim the same as well...</p><p>Like · June 14 at 10:55am</p><p>Darko Markovic</p><p>Darko Markovic We know you're a walking dead without T <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> But, without LH, hm... we don't..... Maybe it's perfectly healthy to be without it, just guessing.....</p><p>Like · June 14 at 11:01am</p><p>Nathaniel James</p><p>Nathaniel James Also, synthetic testosterone is bioidentical. HCG is not LH</p><p>Like · 1 · June 14 at 12:52pm</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Gene Devine</p><p>Gene Devine As Dr. John Crisler has pointed out numerous times; there are LH receptors through out our bodies including our brain and lining or our blood vessels...they are there for a reason. LH does much more then keep the testes alive when on Testosterone Therapy.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 11:04am</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler The bottom line is countless men have reported they do better--some MUCH better--when HCG is added in. In fact, they come to us for it. This is especially true when they had it before, but can't get it any longer, for whatever reason.</p><p>Like · 3 · June 14 at 1:02pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler You need LH (or HCG) to get the CHOL from the mitochondrial outer to inner membranes. Via the StAR mechanism. That may be why HPTA suppressed people (usually) feel more energy when they go on HCG.</p><p>Like · 3 · June 14 at 1:45pm · Edited</p><p>George Touliatos</p><p>George Touliatos the day after of my β-hCG SQ shot,i wake up with an erection.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 2:43pm</p><p>Rand McClain</p><p>Rand McClain Or just raise cholesterol to increase sex hormones?...</p><p>Like · 1 · June 14 at 2:57pm</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Gene Devine</p><p>Gene Devine <a href="http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php" target="_blank">http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php</a>...</p><p> </p><p>The Use of HCG to Prevent / Reverse Testicular Shrinkage and Preserve Fertility</p><p>EXCELMALE.COM</p><p>Like · Remove Preview · 1 · June 14 at 2:15pm</p><p>Rand McClain</p><p>Rand McClain I appreciate your persistence in advocating what you have noted in your experience. However, and without being provocative in a negative way, by your logic, why don't you "backfill" GnRH or TRH eg when treating hypogonadism and hypothyroidism respectiv...See More</p><p>Like · 10 · June 14 at 2:51pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler Because you can't supplement GnRH or TRH. It's not available.Rand McClain</p><p>Like · June 15 at 4:33am · Edited</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler ....but we are looking for the suppressors of GnRH production, above the HPTA. They are many, and is how you could cure Low T for many.</p><p>Like · June 15 at 4:24am</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Gene Devine</p><p>Gene Devine My only point is that one can't voluntarily conduct a self-educed organ shut down like the testes and halt the production of LH and think that this is normal and healthy...it's not. We have LH receptors throughout our bodies and they are there for a r...See More</p><p>Like · June 14 at 3:09pm</p><p>Jim Brown</p><p>Jim Brown "Normal" and "healthy" are highly subjective terms.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 3:51pm</p><p>Rand McClain</p><p>Rand McClain Bingo! So is "better". And I agree, of course, that there isn't necessarily "any one way". I just want add that with medicine, one can't just jump to the "conclusion" Gene makes regarding shutting down a "natural" production. Tell that to someone with ...See More</p><p>Like · 2 · June 14 at 5:30pm</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Nelson Vergel</p><p>Nelson Vergel The reason there is such controversy is because we do not have a single study addressing HCG's effect on upstream hormones. But one will be done this year in Houston</p><p>Like · 7 · June 14 at 4:15pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler We sure do. I've seen a number of them over the years. HCG and PROG, and E, for instance. Maybe someone can dig them up? BTW, this is how we know LH/HCG stimulates the P450scc enzyme, which converts CHOL to PREG...and then onto numerous pathways.</p><p>Like · June 14 at 5:51pm</p><p>Nelson Vergel</p><p>Nelson Vergel Send it to me. I have tried to dig one up.</p><p>Like · June 15 at 6:58am</p><p>Rand McClain</p><p>Rand McClain Even when we get a study, I ask that we please not lose sight of the point that people are different. Give amphetamine to someone with ADHD and they fall asleep. Give it to another and they are awake for 48 hours cleaning the house.</p><p>Like · 6 · June 14 at 5:30pm</p><p>Jay Campbell</p><p>Jay Campbell Rand McClain Hopefully also spit shining the floor and their car too. LOL.</p><p>Like · 1 · June 14 at 5:34pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler The Speed/ADHD conundrum is the best doggoned example I can think of when medicine is NOT intuitive. And for sure, the variation across the population is HUGE. That is why nothing ever surprises me anymore. LOL'</p><p>Like · June 15 at 8:29am · Edited</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Justin Saya</p><p>Justin Saya I am generally on the "pro-HCG" side for *most* guys. I highly encourage it, but do not require it of my patients. It is indeed true that some men seem to do worse subjectively on HCG (for unknown and likely various reasons), however I find that the me...See More</p><p>Like · 3 · June 14 at 6:45pm</p><p>Colin Bruce</p><p>Colin Bruce I use 333mgs HCG every 3rd day post my every 3rd day IM T injection of 1150mgs roughly split over 10 injections per month. Every 4th time for an HCG dose I skip it to keep monthly use a bit lower. I have seen no increase in the size of my balls but fee...See More</p><p>Like · June 14 at 7:02pm</p><p>Rand McClain</p><p>Rand McClain John Crisler, I would certainly appreciate your sharing your work once published - thank you.</p><p>While I do appreciate your humor, I don't want it to distract from my point.</p><p>I'd like to ask: is aging normal and natural and therefore should be mimicked (I...See More</p><p>Like · 6 · June 14 at 7:18pm</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler Dr. Saya prefers to use HCG in all the patients he can. I read their charts, on follow-up, every day. Let's make sure we understand his position.</p><p>Like · June 15 at 3:48am</p><p>John Crisler</p><p>John Crisler "Do no harm"....haven't really seen any harm from HCG. The very few who react to it badly I can, at this point, only chalk up to "someone reacts badly to everything out there."</p><p>Like · June 15 at 7:59am · Edited</p><p>View more replies</p><p>Colin Bruce</p><p>Colin Bruce HCG after a year on UK TRT really accelerated my body fat loss if this circumstantial evidence aids the discussion. Did nothing to reverse atrophy though</p><p>Like · June 14 at 7:45pm</p><p>Justin Saya</p><p>Justin Saya Rand McClain - first of all, great to see you posting my friend. I know you're busy, but it's a breath of fresh air.</p><p> </p><p>Currently recruiting and plan to measure (in new TRT patients in two arms - TRT only/TRT + HCG) objectively - T, E, pregnenolone, DHEA...See More</p><p>Unlike · 6 · June 14 at 7:53pm · Edited</p><p>Jim Brown</p><p>Jim Brown Justin Saya this is where I was headed with the question I just asked John Crisler. I think it's a fantastic start for us to compare the two therapies more objectively. Will be very interested in your findings.</p><p>Like · 1 · June 14 at 8:19pm</p><p>Kai Vester</p><p>Kai Vester Same here jim! Very cutting edge</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nelson Vergel, post: 43575, member: 3"] Mason Woolf I'd love to hear more about this. Hopefully some of these guys will respond. Like · June 11 at 12:35pm Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh Any experience with hcg for me has never ended well after about 4-5 weeks even if dosing was really low. I may use it cyclical in the future but for no more than 2 weeks at a time. Like · June 11 at 1:02pm Kapil Bhatia Kapil Bhatia Chad Hamzeh In what way did your experience of HCG use not end well around the 02 week mark?? Could you elaborate ?? Thanks in advance ?? Like · June 13 at 5:27pm Calvin Smith Calvin Smith What happened with the "hcg"? Like · June 11 at 1:54pm Paolo Altoé Paolo Altoé Glauber Marcius; Gustavo Medeiros Like · 1 · June 11 at 2:21pm John Crisler John Crisler We must not forget there are LH receptors all over the body--they would not be there were there not a reason for them. The LH receptors in the more peripheral (emotional) centers of the brain reward us with a sense of well-being. It also takes LH to ge...See More Unlike · 9 · June 11 at 3:57pm John Crisler John Crisler Dr. Mark Gordon does not regularly use HCG, but he said on stage (AMMG Orlando) a few weeks ago he does not fully suppress LH, so "it stays above 1.0". Like · June 11 at 3:58pm Darko Markovic Darko Markovic How is possible not to supress LH on TRT ? Like · 1 · June 12 at 12:56pm · Edited David Tomić David Tomić magic Like · June 14 at 5:42am John Crisler John Crisler Nelson Vergel, didn't you just post a fascinating study on the StAR? Like · June 11 at 3:59pm John Crisler John Crisler The one-and-only Dr. Eugene Shippen is masterful in his use of HCG, BTW. Like · June 11 at 3:59pm Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh I find I can use HCG for 2-3 weeks at a time, every 2-3 months or so, with no ill effects. But like clockwork, each time I've gone past 5 weeks, even at a dose of 100 per day, it doesn't turn out well. So for my biochemistry I guess, it has a place, just not always on. Like · 1 · June 11 at 4:00pm Kapil Bhatia Kapil Bhatia What I'll effects do you get around the 05 week mark?? Like · June 13 at 5:30pm Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh Lot's of acne, libido drops, high estrogen symptoms, and my labs confirm it. A friend of mine gets the same around 8 weeks, but obviously lots of people do it long term without issues. Like · 2 · June 13 at 5:51pm View more replies John Crisler John Crisler Been using LD HCG therapy since 2002, with great results. I want nearly all my TRT patients on it. "Backfilling the Pathways" is why our guys do better. Like · 2 · June 13 at 5:45am Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh I suppose not everyone is the same in this regard. I was recently advised at defy to drop the hcg after my last labs and symptoms around the 5 week mark. As mentioned, it works great for me for a couple weeks, but seems to increase E for me by a good amount, has happened every time, whether on T or not. I think for me there is value in cycling it. Like · June 13 at 1:09pm Kapil Bhatia Kapil Bhatia Chad Hamzeh what symptoms do you get around the 05 week mark??? Like · June 13 at 5:20pm John Crisler John Crisler As a reminder, starting TRT shuts down your LH. HCG is a mimic of LH. LH is needed all over the body, and is our natural (healthy) state of being. Like · 4 · June 13 at 5:46am Jason Petty Jason Petty What is the Average Dosage Of HCG for Guys on 100mg Cyp per week? I know everyone is Diff just wondering the Average is all Like · 1 · June 13 at 6:30am Kirk Yager Kirk Yager You may find this interesting, DrCrisler. [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3274763/...See[/url] More Progesterone Synthesis in the Nervous System: Implications for… NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV Like · Remove Preview · 1 · June 13 at 9:49am · Edited Gene Devine Gene Devine I've stated it many times; one can't shut down a hormone like LH and think it's normal and healthy...it's not! Like · 2 · June 13 at 8:16am Mason Woolf Mason Woolf Seems entirely logical to me. Would love to hear the reasoning behind Jay Campbell and Rand McClain not using it Like · June 13 at 8:39am Kai Vester Kai Vester - Like · June 13 at 10:55am Rand McClain Rand McClain I prescribe HCG for secondary hypogonadism, but also for cosmetic (prevention of testicular atrophy) and fertility (avoiding Leydig cell senescence) indications. In addition, HCG acts as a TRH mimic so it can boosts one's "idle speed" a bit often times...See More Unlike · 9 · June 13 at 12:42pm Kai Vester Kai Vester Would be interested to hear you hash this question out on YouTube sometime at length!!but great answer! And thank you for your service to us all Like · 2 · June 13 at 12:50pm Mason Woolf Mason Woolf Rand McClain Totally understand if you don't want to answer this, but do you personally use HCG and if not why? Like · June 13 at 1:00pm View more replies Nelson Vergel Nelson Vergel OMG. Rand McClain is in the house ! Like · 8 · June 13 at 1:28pm Lewis Wong Lewis Wong Kelvin Guzmán Like · 1 · June 14 at 4:41am Kelvin Guzmán Kelvin Guzmán Some people feel better without HCG and don't get atrophy/care about fertility. Like · 1 · June 14 at 7:41am John Crisler John Crisler True, there asre some guys who just can't take any HCG without it causing problems. I wish I knew why. Like · 2 · June 14 at 11:56am Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh If you ever figure it out let me know lol :) Like · June 14 at 12:59pm View more replies Kelvin Guzmán Kelvin Guzmán Who knows, someone may be on TRT+HCG and might feel better without it. Like · June 14 at 7:42am Gene Devine Gene Devine Onecan't shut down a hormone like LH and think it's normal and healthy...it's not. It's there for a reason. Not to replace it with an analog is counter intuitive to all our efforts in anti aging medicine. Like · June 14 at 8:55am Darko Markovic Darko Markovic There are no long term studies and we don't know this Gene . HCG is analog, not natural LH, also if someone feels better without it, we don't have a right to claim the opposite... Like · June 14 at 10:51am Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh So for someone in my position where hcg tends to be an issue after the 4-5 week point, it's healthier to add in an AI than simply cycling the hcg? I'd suspect not. Like · June 14 at 9:55am John Crisler John Crisler What kind of doses were you using? Like · June 14 at 12:59pm Chad Hamzeh Chad Hamzeh 100/day was the prescribed protocol. What I noticed is when I was asked to drop it I tapered off and within a week started feeling better, and the best I felt was about 2 weeks off. I am quantifying "best" by sexual health... Its weird its almost like ...See More Like · June 14 at 1:03pm Gene Devine Gene Devine Darko Markovic along your line of thinking then a man shouldn't replace low testosterone serum levels with a synthetic subsitute then. It's one in the same....we don't have long term studies to claim the same as well... Like · June 14 at 10:55am Darko Markovic Darko Markovic We know you're a walking dead without T :D But, without LH, hm... we don't..... Maybe it's perfectly healthy to be without it, just guessing..... Like · June 14 at 11:01am Nathaniel James Nathaniel James Also, synthetic testosterone is bioidentical. HCG is not LH Like · 1 · June 14 at 12:52pm View more replies Gene Devine Gene Devine As Dr. John Crisler has pointed out numerous times; there are LH receptors through out our bodies including our brain and lining or our blood vessels...they are there for a reason. LH does much more then keep the testes alive when on Testosterone Therapy. Like · June 14 at 11:04am John Crisler John Crisler The bottom line is countless men have reported they do better--some MUCH better--when HCG is added in. In fact, they come to us for it. This is especially true when they had it before, but can't get it any longer, for whatever reason. Like · 3 · June 14 at 1:02pm John Crisler John Crisler You need LH (or HCG) to get the CHOL from the mitochondrial outer to inner membranes. Via the StAR mechanism. That may be why HPTA suppressed people (usually) feel more energy when they go on HCG. Like · 3 · June 14 at 1:45pm · Edited George Touliatos George Touliatos the day after of my β-hCG SQ shot,i wake up with an erection. Like · June 14 at 2:43pm Rand McClain Rand McClain Or just raise cholesterol to increase sex hormones?... Like · 1 · June 14 at 2:57pm View more replies Gene Devine Gene Devine [url]http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php[/url]... The Use of HCG to Prevent / Reverse Testicular Shrinkage and Preserve Fertility EXCELMALE.COM Like · Remove Preview · 1 · June 14 at 2:15pm Rand McClain Rand McClain I appreciate your persistence in advocating what you have noted in your experience. However, and without being provocative in a negative way, by your logic, why don't you "backfill" GnRH or TRH eg when treating hypogonadism and hypothyroidism respectiv...See More Like · 10 · June 14 at 2:51pm John Crisler John Crisler Because you can't supplement GnRH or TRH. It's not available.Rand McClain Like · June 15 at 4:33am · Edited John Crisler John Crisler ....but we are looking for the suppressors of GnRH production, above the HPTA. They are many, and is how you could cure Low T for many. Like · June 15 at 4:24am View more replies Gene Devine Gene Devine My only point is that one can't voluntarily conduct a self-educed organ shut down like the testes and halt the production of LH and think that this is normal and healthy...it's not. We have LH receptors throughout our bodies and they are there for a r...See More Like · June 14 at 3:09pm Jim Brown Jim Brown "Normal" and "healthy" are highly subjective terms. Like · June 14 at 3:51pm Rand McClain Rand McClain Bingo! So is "better". And I agree, of course, that there isn't necessarily "any one way". I just want add that with medicine, one can't just jump to the "conclusion" Gene makes regarding shutting down a "natural" production. Tell that to someone with ...See More Like · 2 · June 14 at 5:30pm View more replies Nelson Vergel Nelson Vergel The reason there is such controversy is because we do not have a single study addressing HCG's effect on upstream hormones. But one will be done this year in Houston Like · 7 · June 14 at 4:15pm John Crisler John Crisler We sure do. I've seen a number of them over the years. HCG and PROG, and E, for instance. Maybe someone can dig them up? BTW, this is how we know LH/HCG stimulates the P450scc enzyme, which converts CHOL to PREG...and then onto numerous pathways. Like · June 14 at 5:51pm Nelson Vergel Nelson Vergel Send it to me. I have tried to dig one up. Like · June 15 at 6:58am Rand McClain Rand McClain Even when we get a study, I ask that we please not lose sight of the point that people are different. Give amphetamine to someone with ADHD and they fall asleep. Give it to another and they are awake for 48 hours cleaning the house. Like · 6 · June 14 at 5:30pm Jay Campbell Jay Campbell Rand McClain Hopefully also spit shining the floor and their car too. LOL. Like · 1 · June 14 at 5:34pm John Crisler John Crisler The Speed/ADHD conundrum is the best doggoned example I can think of when medicine is NOT intuitive. And for sure, the variation across the population is HUGE. That is why nothing ever surprises me anymore. LOL' Like · June 15 at 8:29am · Edited View more replies Justin Saya Justin Saya I am generally on the "pro-HCG" side for *most* guys. I highly encourage it, but do not require it of my patients. It is indeed true that some men seem to do worse subjectively on HCG (for unknown and likely various reasons), however I find that the me...See More Like · 3 · June 14 at 6:45pm Colin Bruce Colin Bruce I use 333mgs HCG every 3rd day post my every 3rd day IM T injection of 1150mgs roughly split over 10 injections per month. Every 4th time for an HCG dose I skip it to keep monthly use a bit lower. I have seen no increase in the size of my balls but fee...See More Like · June 14 at 7:02pm Rand McClain Rand McClain John Crisler, I would certainly appreciate your sharing your work once published - thank you. While I do appreciate your humor, I don't want it to distract from my point. I'd like to ask: is aging normal and natural and therefore should be mimicked (I...See More Like · 6 · June 14 at 7:18pm John Crisler John Crisler Dr. Saya prefers to use HCG in all the patients he can. I read their charts, on follow-up, every day. Let's make sure we understand his position. Like · June 15 at 3:48am John Crisler John Crisler "Do no harm"....haven't really seen any harm from HCG. The very few who react to it badly I can, at this point, only chalk up to "someone reacts badly to everything out there." Like · June 15 at 7:59am · Edited View more replies Colin Bruce Colin Bruce HCG after a year on UK TRT really accelerated my body fat loss if this circumstantial evidence aids the discussion. Did nothing to reverse atrophy though Like · June 14 at 7:45pm Justin Saya Justin Saya Rand McClain - first of all, great to see you posting my friend. I know you're busy, but it's a breath of fresh air. Currently recruiting and plan to measure (in new TRT patients in two arms - TRT only/TRT + HCG) objectively - T, E, pregnenolone, DHEA...See More Unlike · 6 · June 14 at 7:53pm · Edited Jim Brown Jim Brown Justin Saya this is where I was headed with the question I just asked John Crisler. I think it's a fantastic start for us to compare the two therapies more objectively. Will be very interested in your findings. Like · 1 · June 14 at 8:19pm Kai Vester Kai Vester Same here jim! Very cutting edge [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Share this page
Facebook
Twitter
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Sponsors
Forums
Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
NO HCG: Dr. Abraham Morgentaler, Dr. Rand McClain, and Jay Campbell??
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top