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General Health & Fitness
Health & Wellness
New Research Confirms We Got Cholesterol All Wrong
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<blockquote data-quote="dnfuss" data-source="post: 124241" data-attributes="member: 15487"><p>It's not a matter of a few exceptions. While many Type 2 diabetics are obese, the majority of obese patients don't have diabetes. I agree there's been an increase in both the incidence of diabetes and obesity over the last 50 or so years. But we disagree about the relationship between them. Because A increases with B doesn't mean that B causes A. The science doesn't indicate any clear pathway by which obesity would cause diabetes. There is simply no physiological process that would explain that. But the explanation of how diabetes promotes obesity is completely consistent with our understanding of its basic biochemistry.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, conclusions based on anecdotes aren't really determinative of anything. Neither you nor I can express a meaningful view about your friend's case without access to his history, labs, etc. And I have no idea what your reference to a pharma company study is supposed to mean. I don't think I've ever heard or read of a pharmaceutical company doing any study on this point. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sure you've had plenty of relatives who developed diabetes, as have I. I'm sure many/most of them ate high carbohydrate diets and were obese. That does not mean that obesity <u>caused</u> their diabetes, only that they <u>occurred together</u>. I have seen and read clinical descriptions of many cases of diabetes over the years. While losing weight will, by reducing the glucose overload at the cellular level, improve blood sugar control somewhat, only in the mildest cases of diabetes will it bring down blood sugars to anywhere near normal levels. The average doctor will tell a patient that they're "just fine now" because they've brought their fasting glucose down from 180+ to the 110s and never bother to check their post-prandial glucoses, which inevitably still spike to unacceptable levels. Such patients are almost always still clinically diabetic, just less so than they were before losing weight. They are by no means "cured" and still quite likely to develop the insidious complications of diabetes over the ensuing decades.</p><p></p><p>Once again, correlation does <u>not</u> prove causation, but <u>lack</u> of correlation <u>does</u> prove <u>lack</u> of causation. How do you account for the majority of overweight people who do NOT develop diabetes if it is in your view a primary driver of the disease?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dnfuss, post: 124241, member: 15487"] It's not a matter of a few exceptions. While many Type 2 diabetics are obese, the majority of obese patients don't have diabetes. I agree there's been an increase in both the incidence of diabetes and obesity over the last 50 or so years. But we disagree about the relationship between them. Because A increases with B doesn't mean that B causes A. The science doesn't indicate any clear pathway by which obesity would cause diabetes. There is simply no physiological process that would explain that. But the explanation of how diabetes promotes obesity is completely consistent with our understanding of its basic biochemistry. Again, conclusions based on anecdotes aren't really determinative of anything. Neither you nor I can express a meaningful view about your friend's case without access to his history, labs, etc. And I have no idea what your reference to a pharma company study is supposed to mean. I don't think I've ever heard or read of a pharmaceutical company doing any study on this point. I'm sure you've had plenty of relatives who developed diabetes, as have I. I'm sure many/most of them ate high carbohydrate diets and were obese. That does not mean that obesity [U]caused[/U] their diabetes, only that they [U]occurred together[/U]. I have seen and read clinical descriptions of many cases of diabetes over the years. While losing weight will, by reducing the glucose overload at the cellular level, improve blood sugar control somewhat, only in the mildest cases of diabetes will it bring down blood sugars to anywhere near normal levels. The average doctor will tell a patient that they're "just fine now" because they've brought their fasting glucose down from 180+ to the 110s and never bother to check their post-prandial glucoses, which inevitably still spike to unacceptable levels. Such patients are almost always still clinically diabetic, just less so than they were before losing weight. They are by no means "cured" and still quite likely to develop the insidious complications of diabetes over the ensuing decades. Once again, correlation does [U]not[/U] prove causation, but [U]lack[/U] of correlation [U]does[/U] prove [U]lack[/U] of causation. How do you account for the majority of overweight people who do NOT develop diabetes if it is in your view a primary driver of the disease? [/QUOTE]
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New Research Confirms We Got Cholesterol All Wrong
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