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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
When Testosterone Is Not Enough
My HcG trials
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 210352" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p><strong><em> I went to clinics for several years where I was started at <u>200 mg and I received HcG as well (no idea how much.)</u> Just like many other members it was successful the first few years.<u> Lots of libido and strong erections but side effects came along with it</u>. <u>Terrible sleep, anxiety, heart palpitations, and then I started breaking out on my face like a teenager</u>. </em></strong></p><p></p><p>I would bet that a good part of those sides was due to the T dose which would result in very high FT levels let alone peak--->trough once-weekly injections.</p><p></p><p>Most would never need such a dose to achieve a healthy, high let alone in some cases absurdly high FT.</p><p></p><p>Ridiculous to start anyone off on such a dose and it is hard to believe you stayed on the same piss poor protocol that long while dealing with such sides.</p><p></p><p>Although the use of hCG can contribute to sides depending on the dose used/the individual your trough FT level will have a significant impact on such!</p><p></p><p>Looking over your previous threads your SHBG was only 20 nmol/L.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>I dealt with all of this for about <u>5 years</u> then decided I needed to cut back (this is when I found this forum.) <u>I dropped HcG for a while, reduced my test to 100 mg/week (50 Monday and 50 Thursday night.) However now I've struggled with libido for the past 2 years</u>. I always thought it was the test that was causing most of the side effects but now I think it's HcG (good and bad.)</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Even though you dropped the hCG the drop in T dose was significant 200 mg T once weekly--->100 mg T split (50mg every 3.5 days).</p><p></p><p>Going to be a big difference in your FT levels let alone peak--->trough.</p><p></p><p>Where do your trough TT, FT, and estradiol levels sit on your current protocol?</p><p></p><p>Did you even know where your FT level truly sits?</p><p></p><p>Was it tested using an accurate assay (ED or UF)?</p><p></p><p>Where does your SHBG sit as of now?</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em><u>Without the HcG I had good and bad weeks</u>. I have read over several forums and decided to <u>start HcG (500 iu 2x/week)</u> back up and give it a try for a few months. The first 3 weeks it made me feel like shit. I was about to stop but kept pushing thru. <u>2 weeks ago I had amazing energy and holy shit my libido came back</u>. No more need for Cialis and strong lasting elections. I thought it's a miracle. <u>All of a sudden this past week I have broken out all over my face like you couldn't imagine</u>. <u>15 massive pimples all over my face and all over my scalp</u>. <u>I've seen dermatologist for years about these but they were mostly gone</u>. I am a professional that has to shave and it's embarrassing and painful AF. Also it has given me anxiety and sleeplessness. <u>However I still have my libido and good erections</u>.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Clear as day that you are genetically prone to acne.</p><p></p><p>Again have no clue where your trough FT level truly sat on your current protocol 100 mg T/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) before you added the hCG (500IU 2x/week).</p><p></p><p>The addition of hCG will drive up your T levels further and can easily contribute to oily skin/acne.</p><p></p><p>The increased sensitivity of the receptor to androgen at the pilosebaceous unit /increased activity of the 5α-reductase enzyme results in the overproduction of DHT.</p><p></p><p>Sebaceous glands are part of the pilosebaceous unit (hair + oil gland duo).</p><p></p><p>Testosterones metabolite dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is responsible for the increase in the size of the sebaceous gland/production of sebum.</p><p></p><p>Higher than normal levels of this androgenic hormone, or <u>increased sensitivity of the glands to normal levels of DHT</u> can result in oily skin/acne on the face/chest/shoulders/back.</p><p></p><p>Too many tend to get caught up in excess/high DHT as being the culprit when in fact <u>sensitivity of the AR (oil gland/hair follicle) is the main driver</u> as normal levels of DHT can still lead to oily skin/acne.</p><p></p><p>Comes down to the individual/genetics.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em><strong>Questions.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>Should I cut back on to HcG? I love the libido and erections but can't take the bad effects.</strong></em></p><p></p><p>If anything it would have been more helpful to compare labs to see where your trough TT, FT, and estradiol sat on the T-only protocol 100 mg T split (50 mg every 3.5 days) and now with the addition of Hcg 500 IU 2x/week.</p><p></p><p>Lowering your hCG dose 200-250 IU 2x/week would be a smart move and you could even try injecting lower doses more frequently.</p><p></p><p>If you are someone genetically prone to acne then finding the lowest FT level you can run while still maintaining the beneficial effects of having a healthy testosterone level would have a big impact on preventing/minimizing side effects.</p><p></p><p>Easier said than done.</p><p> </p><p>Excess FT levels can result in acne/oily skin (genetically prone), accelerated balding (genetically prone), drive down HDL, increased RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit (common), overstimulation of the CNS (common), bloating/water retention due to androgens effects on the retention of electrolytes (common).</p><p></p><p>Let alone many end up trying to manage estradiol with the use of an aromatase inhibitor.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em><strong>Has anyone cycled HcG? Maybe a few weeks on then take a few off?</strong></em></p><p></p><p>If you are also concerned with preventing/minimizing testicular atrophy let alone maintain fertility then I would not waste your time cycling hCG.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>Anyway to counter act the acne? Other than meds from a derm.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>If you are one who is genetically prone to acne.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to your protocol:</p><p></p><p><em><strong>*knowing where your FT level truly sits (accurate assays)</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>* avoid running too high an FT level </strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*injecting lower doses of T more frequently (clipping peak--->trough, achieving more stable T levels)</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*lowering your overall weekly dose of T when adding hCG</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*injecting lower doses of hCG more frequently</strong></em></p><p></p><p><strong><em>*running lower doses <100 mg T/week and adding nandrolone</em></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]17145[/ATTACH]</p><p><strong>Figure 1. Representation of serum testosterone fluctuations after several different administration methods. TE: Testosterone Enanthate, TU: Testosterone Undecanoate, T gel: Testosterone gel.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 210352, member: 13851"] [B][I] I went to clinics for several years where I was started at [U]200 mg and I received HcG as well (no idea how much.)[/U] Just like many other members it was successful the first few years.[U] Lots of libido and strong erections but side effects came along with it[/U]. [U]Terrible sleep, anxiety, heart palpitations, and then I started breaking out on my face like a teenager[/U]. [/I][/B] I would bet that a good part of those sides was due to the T dose which would result in very high FT levels let alone peak--->trough once-weekly injections. Most would never need such a dose to achieve a healthy, high let alone in some cases absurdly high FT. Ridiculous to start anyone off on such a dose and it is hard to believe you stayed on the same piss poor protocol that long while dealing with such sides. Although the use of hCG can contribute to sides depending on the dose used/the individual your trough FT level will have a significant impact on such! Looking over your previous threads your SHBG was only 20 nmol/L. [B][I]I dealt with all of this for about [U]5 years[/U] then decided I needed to cut back (this is when I found this forum.) [U]I dropped HcG for a while, reduced my test to 100 mg/week (50 Monday and 50 Thursday night.) However now I've struggled with libido for the past 2 years[/U]. I always thought it was the test that was causing most of the side effects but now I think it's HcG (good and bad.)[/I][/B] Even though you dropped the hCG the drop in T dose was significant 200 mg T once weekly--->100 mg T split (50mg every 3.5 days). Going to be a big difference in your FT levels let alone peak--->trough. Where do your trough TT, FT, and estradiol levels sit on your current protocol? Did you even know where your FT level truly sits? Was it tested using an accurate assay (ED or UF)? Where does your SHBG sit as of now? [B][I][U]Without the HcG I had good and bad weeks[/U]. I have read over several forums and decided to [U]start HcG (500 iu 2x/week)[/U] back up and give it a try for a few months. The first 3 weeks it made me feel like shit. I was about to stop but kept pushing thru. [U]2 weeks ago I had amazing energy and holy shit my libido came back[/U]. No more need for Cialis and strong lasting elections. I thought it's a miracle. [U]All of a sudden this past week I have broken out all over my face like you couldn't imagine[/U]. [U]15 massive pimples all over my face and all over my scalp[/U]. [U]I've seen dermatologist for years about these but they were mostly gone[/U]. I am a professional that has to shave and it's embarrassing and painful AF. Also it has given me anxiety and sleeplessness. [U]However I still have my libido and good erections[/U].[/I][/B] Clear as day that you are genetically prone to acne. Again have no clue where your trough FT level truly sat on your current protocol 100 mg T/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) before you added the hCG (500IU 2x/week). The addition of hCG will drive up your T levels further and can easily contribute to oily skin/acne. The increased sensitivity of the receptor to androgen at the pilosebaceous unit /increased activity of the 5α-reductase enzyme results in the overproduction of DHT. Sebaceous glands are part of the pilosebaceous unit (hair + oil gland duo). Testosterones metabolite dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is responsible for the increase in the size of the sebaceous gland/production of sebum. Higher than normal levels of this androgenic hormone, or [U]increased sensitivity of the glands to normal levels of DHT[/U] can result in oily skin/acne on the face/chest/shoulders/back. Too many tend to get caught up in excess/high DHT as being the culprit when in fact [U]sensitivity of the AR (oil gland/hair follicle) is the main driver[/U] as normal levels of DHT can still lead to oily skin/acne. Comes down to the individual/genetics. [I][B]Questions. Should I cut back on to HcG? I love the libido and erections but can't take the bad effects.[/B][/I] If anything it would have been more helpful to compare labs to see where your trough TT, FT, and estradiol sat on the T-only protocol 100 mg T split (50 mg every 3.5 days) and now with the addition of Hcg 500 IU 2x/week. Lowering your hCG dose 200-250 IU 2x/week would be a smart move and you could even try injecting lower doses more frequently. If you are someone genetically prone to acne then finding the lowest FT level you can run while still maintaining the beneficial effects of having a healthy testosterone level would have a big impact on preventing/minimizing side effects. Easier said than done. Excess FT levels can result in acne/oily skin (genetically prone), accelerated balding (genetically prone), drive down HDL, increased RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit (common), overstimulation of the CNS (common), bloating/water retention due to androgens effects on the retention of electrolytes (common). Let alone many end up trying to manage estradiol with the use of an aromatase inhibitor. [I][B]Has anyone cycled HcG? Maybe a few weeks on then take a few off?[/B][/I] If you are also concerned with preventing/minimizing testicular atrophy let alone maintain fertility then I would not waste your time cycling hCG. [B][I]Anyway to counter act the acne? Other than meds from a derm.[/I][/B] If you are one who is genetically prone to acne. When it comes to your protocol: [I][B]*knowing where your FT level truly sits (accurate assays) * avoid running too high an FT level *injecting lower doses of T more frequently (clipping peak--->trough, achieving more stable T levels) *lowering your overall weekly dose of T when adding hCG *injecting lower doses of hCG more frequently[/B][/I] [B][I]*running lower doses <100 mg T/week and adding nandrolone[/I][/B] [ATTACH type="full" alt="Screenshot (8489).png"]17145[/ATTACH] [B]Figure 1. Representation of serum testosterone fluctuations after several different administration methods. TE: Testosterone Enanthate, TU: Testosterone Undecanoate, T gel: Testosterone gel.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
When Testosterone Is Not Enough
My HcG trials
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