ExcelMale
Menu
Home
What's new
Latest activity
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Videos
Lab Tests
Doctor Finder
Buy Books
About Us
Men’s Health Coaching
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More options
Contact us
Close Menu
Forums
Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Low T and elevated fasting blood sugar
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Re-Ride" data-source="post: 35088" data-attributes="member: 8395"><p>Yes I am on hCG mono. I started on it more than 25 years ago. Like you my hypo-G was brought on by an underlying condition and meds. In that era hCG therapy succumbed to fear and widespread disapproval as a result of so few studies being available in the 80's and 90's. For this reason and because Big Pharma began reaping a gold mine with new patches and gels O was dumped on patches then gel. </p><p></p><p>I remained in gell hell until about a year ago. The recent resurgence in hCG therapy could not have come at a better time for me. For decades I received virtually no management of my endocrine system by my docs. By last spring I was in a dire state. As is typical low T symptoms were never idetified and I was prescribed anti-anxiety agents and ant-deprssents for them. </p><p></p><p>I suspect the reason we do not hear more about hCG mono is the almost universal lack of understanding regarding dosing required for hCG's extremely short half life. Endogenous serum T, unlike cyp will crash within -HOURS- in absence of the hCG signal. I have seen my serum T crash from 725 to ~100 in just three days off hCG. This is because LH and FSH production usually ceases while on hCG just as it does on TRT. Endogenous T only lasts hours not days like exogenous T cyp. </p><p></p><p>Aside from not doing the correct dosing, which is small amounts preferably daily, the other obstacle is excessive intratesticular E2 production. I do believe there are as yet poorly understood mechanisms of adaptation to hCG which can take place. After sticking with hCG mono through an unpleasant resurgence of gyno and other challenges lasting months I seem to have conquered E2 and now requiring very little AI. </p><p></p><p>It's easy to understand why most men end up on exogenous T cyp or gel. Guys like you and me are then left reading about their very low occasional doses of hCG used to maintain spermatogenisis and worrying that we need to follow their protocols. Those who do will certainly FAIL hCG mono imo. </p><p></p><p><strong>I am not a doctor. Nothing I am saying here should be construed as advice. I can only share my experience with you.</strong> Exceedingly few doctors have the skills, experience and patience required to effectively trreat with hCG mono. You will need to engage someone like Dr. Saya AND you will need to aggressively supplement with the correct aminos and herbs to alleviate the symptoms caused by your underlying health issues and damage from prior prescription drugs much like long term survivors of HIV have done. </p><p></p><p>No one can predict how well you will do on hCG mono just like no one can predict what TRT might do for you. I do believe, given your relative youth and a baseline of 325, that there is at least a chance that you can recover to a natural state of 600 or better in time freeing you of the need for either TRT or hCG. </p><p></p><p>It is important to understand that the option to return to NON-hCG stimulated endogenous production, slim as it may be, will almost certainly evaporate once you progress to TRT. It may also dissapear if on hCG mono long enough. </p><p></p><p>Most, opt out for the comparatively faster results often obtained on TRT in the hope of quickly alleviating symptoms and building mass and not giving mono a chance. This is a difficult decision. No outcome can be guaranteed on either approach. </p><p></p><p><strong>Key to understanding what you are doing at the moment is that you are very likely shutting down your LH FSH and making your body totally dependent on the hCG signal to produce all of your endogenous T. </strong> If that signal is not strong enough or consistent enough you will <u>not</u> have adequate T for health. Your T can then crash lower than your 325 baseline. </p><p></p><p>The fist step in pursuing hCG mono is establishing what your testes are capable of. This appears to be where you are at now. The product is labeled for dosing and frequency known to accomplish that in those with healthy testes. This is likely higher a dose than required but allows the pt to sort of get by on the MWF dosing (1500 IU 3x week). A more progressive doc will likely choose much lower daily or EOD dosing as above mentioned. </p><p></p><p>Once it is determined that the man is capable of endogenous production >600 ( an arbitrary number- some men will feel well at 500-700 while others do not ), it is time to determine his unique minimum dose to maintain that level. Typically he will find a unique dose above which he gets no further benefit. That could be 350 EOD or 500 to 800 or more per day in a few cases. This pt dependent highly variable dosing which requires patience and more testing than TRT discourages many docs and pt's from sticking with hCG mono. Read the above as merely my theory or what worked for me. </p><p></p><p>As C.W. states you have a complex treatment ahead that requires a lot of thought and discussion. Where you are at the moment is on the verge of being forced to decide whether you are ready for lifetime TRT, possibly combined with testicular maintenance dosing of hCG, or you would like to first try proper hCG mono under the care of a specialist and leave your options open. </p><p></p><p>The good thing is that you seem commited to doing the extra labs required. It is always possible that you will fall outside the bell curve and get an acceptable result at the unusally low dose (for mono) of 500 IU 2 or three times weekly. As long as you test the trough ( longest number of hours after last dose) and establish what your minium serum T is you will be fine. </p><p></p><p>The above isn't meant to be any sort of guide to hCG mono. Expect a roller coaster ride albeit one that is often not as dramatic as TRT can be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Re-Ride, post: 35088, member: 8395"] Yes I am on hCG mono. I started on it more than 25 years ago. Like you my hypo-G was brought on by an underlying condition and meds. In that era hCG therapy succumbed to fear and widespread disapproval as a result of so few studies being available in the 80's and 90's. For this reason and because Big Pharma began reaping a gold mine with new patches and gels O was dumped on patches then gel. I remained in gell hell until about a year ago. The recent resurgence in hCG therapy could not have come at a better time for me. For decades I received virtually no management of my endocrine system by my docs. By last spring I was in a dire state. As is typical low T symptoms were never idetified and I was prescribed anti-anxiety agents and ant-deprssents for them. I suspect the reason we do not hear more about hCG mono is the almost universal lack of understanding regarding dosing required for hCG's extremely short half life. Endogenous serum T, unlike cyp will crash within -HOURS- in absence of the hCG signal. I have seen my serum T crash from 725 to ~100 in just three days off hCG. This is because LH and FSH production usually ceases while on hCG just as it does on TRT. Endogenous T only lasts hours not days like exogenous T cyp. Aside from not doing the correct dosing, which is small amounts preferably daily, the other obstacle is excessive intratesticular E2 production. I do believe there are as yet poorly understood mechanisms of adaptation to hCG which can take place. After sticking with hCG mono through an unpleasant resurgence of gyno and other challenges lasting months I seem to have conquered E2 and now requiring very little AI. It's easy to understand why most men end up on exogenous T cyp or gel. Guys like you and me are then left reading about their very low occasional doses of hCG used to maintain spermatogenisis and worrying that we need to follow their protocols. Those who do will certainly FAIL hCG mono imo. [B]I am not a doctor. Nothing I am saying here should be construed as advice. I can only share my experience with you.[/B] Exceedingly few doctors have the skills, experience and patience required to effectively trreat with hCG mono. You will need to engage someone like Dr. Saya AND you will need to aggressively supplement with the correct aminos and herbs to alleviate the symptoms caused by your underlying health issues and damage from prior prescription drugs much like long term survivors of HIV have done. No one can predict how well you will do on hCG mono just like no one can predict what TRT might do for you. I do believe, given your relative youth and a baseline of 325, that there is at least a chance that you can recover to a natural state of 600 or better in time freeing you of the need for either TRT or hCG. It is important to understand that the option to return to NON-hCG stimulated endogenous production, slim as it may be, will almost certainly evaporate once you progress to TRT. It may also dissapear if on hCG mono long enough. Most, opt out for the comparatively faster results often obtained on TRT in the hope of quickly alleviating symptoms and building mass and not giving mono a chance. This is a difficult decision. No outcome can be guaranteed on either approach. [B]Key to understanding what you are doing at the moment is that you are very likely shutting down your LH FSH and making your body totally dependent on the hCG signal to produce all of your endogenous T. [/B] If that signal is not strong enough or consistent enough you will [U]not[/U] have adequate T for health. Your T can then crash lower than your 325 baseline. The fist step in pursuing hCG mono is establishing what your testes are capable of. This appears to be where you are at now. The product is labeled for dosing and frequency known to accomplish that in those with healthy testes. This is likely higher a dose than required but allows the pt to sort of get by on the MWF dosing (1500 IU 3x week). A more progressive doc will likely choose much lower daily or EOD dosing as above mentioned. Once it is determined that the man is capable of endogenous production >600 ( an arbitrary number- some men will feel well at 500-700 while others do not ), it is time to determine his unique minimum dose to maintain that level. Typically he will find a unique dose above which he gets no further benefit. That could be 350 EOD or 500 to 800 or more per day in a few cases. This pt dependent highly variable dosing which requires patience and more testing than TRT discourages many docs and pt's from sticking with hCG mono. Read the above as merely my theory or what worked for me. As C.W. states you have a complex treatment ahead that requires a lot of thought and discussion. Where you are at the moment is on the verge of being forced to decide whether you are ready for lifetime TRT, possibly combined with testicular maintenance dosing of hCG, or you would like to first try proper hCG mono under the care of a specialist and leave your options open. The good thing is that you seem commited to doing the extra labs required. It is always possible that you will fall outside the bell curve and get an acceptable result at the unusally low dose (for mono) of 500 IU 2 or three times weekly. As long as you test the trough ( longest number of hours after last dose) and establish what your minium serum T is you will be fine. The above isn't meant to be any sort of guide to hCG mono. Expect a roller coaster ride albeit one that is often not as dramatic as TRT can be. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Share this page
Facebook
Twitter
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Sponsors
Forums
Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Low T and elevated fasting blood sugar
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top