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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Looking for experiences on Test+FSH+HCG
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<blockquote data-quote="Sides" data-source="post: 127056" data-attributes="member: 31749"><p>TRT + HCG + HMG (mixed FSH and LH) has definitely worked for me in restoring fertility after many years of being on testosterone. It is expensive, as insurance typically will never pay for fertility treatments, but worth it for guys who want to keep their fertility while still using testosterone, or regain their fertility after many years of using testosterone.</p><p></p><p>I am 50, used to be a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter, and have been taking test and other anabolic steroids for 26 years now...on and off, but mostly on. My last time off was in 2010, I have been on testosterone without a break for almost 8 years now.</p><p></p><p>I have children with an ex-wife, but got married to another woman in October of 2017. We each have our own fertility concerns, as I am 50 and she is 41, but we wanted to try for at least one more child of our own. Unfortunately, I was completely azoospermatic, no sperm at all. And she had been on doctor-prescribed birth control for several years, and it was very hard for both of us to get our bodies started up again.</p><p></p><p>In November of 2017 I started on my "everything but the kitchen sink" fertility program, which has changed over the months but has evolved to the following:</p><p></p><p>200mg test cypionate per week</p><p>500iu HCG every other day</p><p>60iu HMG (mixed FSH and LH) every day</p><p>50mg Clomid every day</p><p>25mg Proviron every day</p><p>2-4iu HGH every day</p><p></p><p>This program seems to have been successful. My wife and I had IVF done last week. They extracted 21 eggs from her, of which my sperm fertilized 14. Three embryos survived to become 5-day blastocysts, ready for freezing or implantation. So hopefully I will be a father again soon.</p><p></p><p>My sperm count started out at zero, completely azoospermatic. But as the months went on it rose to 4 million per ml, then to 7 million per ml, then eventually to 12 million. Sperm motility, morphology, and forward progression started out very poor, but continued to get better and better as the months went on.</p><p></p><p>HMG (mixed FSH and LH) was definitely an important factor, and may have been the game changer I needed.</p><p></p><p>If I look at the different semen analyses that were done, 6 months of HCG restored my sperm count to 4 million, but with poor motility and forward progression. Adding HMG triggered the increase to 7 million and then 12 million, and vastly improved the motility, morphology, and forward progression.</p><p></p><p>So I would definitely recommend taking HMG if you can, or even better recombinant FSH. My fertility doctor would never prescribe HMG or FSH for me, so I had to buy it on my own from online sources.</p><p></p><p>I included a bunch of different drugs in my protocol, just to cover all the bases, but in reality T and HCG and HMG, or even better T and HCG and FSH, is probably all you need.</p><p></p><p>HCG is a longer-acting analogue for LH (luteinizing hormone), so replaces what naturally-produced LH would normally do, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testicles to produce high amount of intra-testicular testosterone, necessary for optimal sperm production.</p><p></p><p>The other necessary factor in producing sperm is FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), which stimulates the Sertoli cells (80% of the mass of the testicles) to produce and mature sperm.</p><p></p><p>Both FSH and LH (or HCG) are necessary for optimal sperm production.</p><p></p><p>HMG (human menopausal gonadotropin) is a bit of a tricky drug, because it contains both FSH and LH. This would seem perfect for sperm production, but there are not high enough levels of LH in HMG to obtain high enough levels of intra-testicular testosterone for optimal sperm production. That's why fertility programs always includes HCG along with the HMG, so that both the Leydig cells and the Sertoli cells will be optimally stimulated to produce as much sperm as possible.</p><p></p><p>An even better option than HMG is to take FSH along with the HCG, but it is very hard to get FSH and it is usually very expensive. I had to buy my wife's FSH for our IVF cycle, and a 900iu pen of Gonal-F cost me $714 with a big discount from the pharmacy. Usually the 900iu pens cost over $2000.</p><p></p><p>But just yesterday, I was finally able to convince my fertility doctor to prescribe me FSH from Empower Pharmacy in Texas. A 1200iu vial of FSH only cost me $325, which is the lowest priced FSH anywhere in America. I also get my HCG prescribed from Empower, and 50,000iu of HCG only costs me $250 from them. So with overnight shipping with cold packs, my total for 1200iu FSH and 50,000iu HCG was only $615. This is the greatest bargain you will ever find in fertility treatments, and I am ecstatic that my doctor finally agreed to prescribe me FSH from them.</p><p></p><p>So I would suggest to anybody who is interested in regaining their fertility to try to get their doctor to prescribe them HCG and HMG or FSH.</p><p></p><p>The program evolved as it went along. I didn't have access to HMG or FSH for the first few months, which would have helped a lot more. I added small amounts of a Chinese generic HMG in April, then got pharma grade Menopur in July and Merional in August from black market sources.</p><p></p><p>My FSH and LH were zero when I started, but taking the Merional at 60iu per day brought FSH up to a consistent 5.0 on a range from 1.5-12.4 miu/ml. Having earlier access to HMG would have helped more, but I couldn't get my fertility doctor to prescribe it, and I was limited to what I could buy on the black market.</p><p></p><p>My fertility doctor wanted to increase my HCG to 3000iu every other day, but that was way too much for me and raised my E2 levels above the top of the range, 64.7 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml (non-sensitive E2 test). This caused me gynecomastia, anxiety, lack of libido, and erectile dysfunction. My fertility doctor's response to this was to prescribe me an aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole, at 2.5mg per day. Again, that was way too much for me and crashed my E2, causing me even worse libido and erectile dysfunction, although it did help clear up my gynecomastia. I cut back on the Letrozole to .5mg every other day, but after 6 weeks my E2 was still crashed at <5.0 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml, so I cut out the Letrozole completely. If I had to do it all over again, I would have kept the HCG at 500iu every other day, and avoided the use of Letrozole completely. Moderate consistent low doses of the drugs has been much better to me than high doses of anything, although I can appreciate that there are studies where the high doses have worked for people.</p><p></p><p>Regarding Proviron and Clomid, I am not sure how much they helped or hurt depending on their effects. I started out with good free test numbers (21.0 on a range from 7.2-24.0 pg/mL, total test at 1014 ng/dL), but as the program went on my SHBG rose to very high levels (112.5 on a range from 19.3-76.4 nmol/L).</p><p></p><p>This obviously had a negative effect on my levels of free test and free E2, both of which are important to libido and erectile function, not to mention muscle strength and size. And my libido was good at first but much worse as the program went on, although obviously it is hard to separate out the combined effects of all the compounds involved (HCG, HMG, Proviron, Clomid, the letrozole my fertility doc had me on for a while before it drove E2 too low, etc.)</p><p></p><p>In the end, I can only be happy and grateful to God that the program seems to have worked. I was able to recover my sperm count after many years of anabolic steroid use, and successfully fertilize my wife's eggs, and hopefully we will have a baby in the near future. However, I am always interested if the program could have been better or worse, for other people who want to try a fertility program in the future.</p><p></p><p>But at least my experience has shown that the program did work, even for someone like myself who has used steroids for many years. You can regain your sperm count and have children without ever having to go off of testosterone. So I am grateful that it all seems to have worked out for the best.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sides, post: 127056, member: 31749"] TRT + HCG + HMG (mixed FSH and LH) has definitely worked for me in restoring fertility after many years of being on testosterone. It is expensive, as insurance typically will never pay for fertility treatments, but worth it for guys who want to keep their fertility while still using testosterone, or regain their fertility after many years of using testosterone. I am 50, used to be a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter, and have been taking test and other anabolic steroids for 26 years now...on and off, but mostly on. My last time off was in 2010, I have been on testosterone without a break for almost 8 years now. I have children with an ex-wife, but got married to another woman in October of 2017. We each have our own fertility concerns, as I am 50 and she is 41, but we wanted to try for at least one more child of our own. Unfortunately, I was completely azoospermatic, no sperm at all. And she had been on doctor-prescribed birth control for several years, and it was very hard for both of us to get our bodies started up again. In November of 2017 I started on my "everything but the kitchen sink" fertility program, which has changed over the months but has evolved to the following: 200mg test cypionate per week 500iu HCG every other day 60iu HMG (mixed FSH and LH) every day 50mg Clomid every day 25mg Proviron every day 2-4iu HGH every day This program seems to have been successful. My wife and I had IVF done last week. They extracted 21 eggs from her, of which my sperm fertilized 14. Three embryos survived to become 5-day blastocysts, ready for freezing or implantation. So hopefully I will be a father again soon. My sperm count started out at zero, completely azoospermatic. But as the months went on it rose to 4 million per ml, then to 7 million per ml, then eventually to 12 million. Sperm motility, morphology, and forward progression started out very poor, but continued to get better and better as the months went on. HMG (mixed FSH and LH) was definitely an important factor, and may have been the game changer I needed. If I look at the different semen analyses that were done, 6 months of HCG restored my sperm count to 4 million, but with poor motility and forward progression. Adding HMG triggered the increase to 7 million and then 12 million, and vastly improved the motility, morphology, and forward progression. So I would definitely recommend taking HMG if you can, or even better recombinant FSH. My fertility doctor would never prescribe HMG or FSH for me, so I had to buy it on my own from online sources. I included a bunch of different drugs in my protocol, just to cover all the bases, but in reality T and HCG and HMG, or even better T and HCG and FSH, is probably all you need. HCG is a longer-acting analogue for LH (luteinizing hormone), so replaces what naturally-produced LH would normally do, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testicles to produce high amount of intra-testicular testosterone, necessary for optimal sperm production. The other necessary factor in producing sperm is FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), which stimulates the Sertoli cells (80% of the mass of the testicles) to produce and mature sperm. Both FSH and LH (or HCG) are necessary for optimal sperm production. HMG (human menopausal gonadotropin) is a bit of a tricky drug, because it contains both FSH and LH. This would seem perfect for sperm production, but there are not high enough levels of LH in HMG to obtain high enough levels of intra-testicular testosterone for optimal sperm production. That's why fertility programs always includes HCG along with the HMG, so that both the Leydig cells and the Sertoli cells will be optimally stimulated to produce as much sperm as possible. An even better option than HMG is to take FSH along with the HCG, but it is very hard to get FSH and it is usually very expensive. I had to buy my wife's FSH for our IVF cycle, and a 900iu pen of Gonal-F cost me $714 with a big discount from the pharmacy. Usually the 900iu pens cost over $2000. But just yesterday, I was finally able to convince my fertility doctor to prescribe me FSH from Empower Pharmacy in Texas. A 1200iu vial of FSH only cost me $325, which is the lowest priced FSH anywhere in America. I also get my HCG prescribed from Empower, and 50,000iu of HCG only costs me $250 from them. So with overnight shipping with cold packs, my total for 1200iu FSH and 50,000iu HCG was only $615. This is the greatest bargain you will ever find in fertility treatments, and I am ecstatic that my doctor finally agreed to prescribe me FSH from them. So I would suggest to anybody who is interested in regaining their fertility to try to get their doctor to prescribe them HCG and HMG or FSH. The program evolved as it went along. I didn't have access to HMG or FSH for the first few months, which would have helped a lot more. I added small amounts of a Chinese generic HMG in April, then got pharma grade Menopur in July and Merional in August from black market sources. My FSH and LH were zero when I started, but taking the Merional at 60iu per day brought FSH up to a consistent 5.0 on a range from 1.5-12.4 miu/ml. Having earlier access to HMG would have helped more, but I couldn't get my fertility doctor to prescribe it, and I was limited to what I could buy on the black market. My fertility doctor wanted to increase my HCG to 3000iu every other day, but that was way too much for me and raised my E2 levels above the top of the range, 64.7 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml (non-sensitive E2 test). This caused me gynecomastia, anxiety, lack of libido, and erectile dysfunction. My fertility doctor's response to this was to prescribe me an aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole, at 2.5mg per day. Again, that was way too much for me and crashed my E2, causing me even worse libido and erectile dysfunction, although it did help clear up my gynecomastia. I cut back on the Letrozole to .5mg every other day, but after 6 weeks my E2 was still crashed at <5.0 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml, so I cut out the Letrozole completely. If I had to do it all over again, I would have kept the HCG at 500iu every other day, and avoided the use of Letrozole completely. Moderate consistent low doses of the drugs has been much better to me than high doses of anything, although I can appreciate that there are studies where the high doses have worked for people. Regarding Proviron and Clomid, I am not sure how much they helped or hurt depending on their effects. I started out with good free test numbers (21.0 on a range from 7.2-24.0 pg/mL, total test at 1014 ng/dL), but as the program went on my SHBG rose to very high levels (112.5 on a range from 19.3-76.4 nmol/L). This obviously had a negative effect on my levels of free test and free E2, both of which are important to libido and erectile function, not to mention muscle strength and size. And my libido was good at first but much worse as the program went on, although obviously it is hard to separate out the combined effects of all the compounds involved (HCG, HMG, Proviron, Clomid, the letrozole my fertility doc had me on for a while before it drove E2 too low, etc.) In the end, I can only be happy and grateful to God that the program seems to have worked. I was able to recover my sperm count after many years of anabolic steroid use, and successfully fertilize my wife's eggs, and hopefully we will have a baby in the near future. However, I am always interested if the program could have been better or worse, for other people who want to try a fertility program in the future. But at least my experience has shown that the program did work, even for someone like myself who has used steroids for many years. You can regain your sperm count and have children without ever having to go off of testosterone. So I am grateful that it all seems to have worked out for the best. [/QUOTE]
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