Large dose reduction

[wemmington]

So I really screwed up and reduced my dose from 15mg/dy to 8/mg day in one shot and now I’m really paying the price.

I’m 42 and have been on test for about five years and have low SHBG so I’ve gone to an every day protocol in the last couple years.

In January I started dieting and lost almost 20 pounds and at the end of the diet it got really fatigued so increased my dosage from 14 to 15 mg per day in hopes that that would help. After a few weeks of just crushing fatigue I got labs done and total testosterone was 1124 and free testosterone was 325 (lab range 35-155 pg/ml)with SHBG at 16 and us e2 was 40. I got really freaked out when I saw the free testosterone was over double the lab range and stopped testosterone completely for six days and then restarted at 8 mg per day. While dieting I also quit drinking any alcohol and really cleaned up my diet but then at the end with the fatigue stopped lifting weights and I think all of this increased my testosterone by quite a bit.

I realize now I should’ve made very small changes in my dose but I’m not sure what to do at this point. I have absolutely incredible anxiety and can barely function. I have obsessive thoughts muscle twitches and I am dizzy almost all the time. I’m at the point where I can barely function and I don’t think I can work anymore. I’ve been to the doctor and they prescribed me BuSpar and Clonopin as needed and they seem to help but I’m still miserable.

I wonder if at this point if I should just leave it alone or increase my dosage some and then slowly drop it down?

Also my hematocrit was it 50.8 so I donated blood to get that down and my LDL went up to 129 from 87.

It has been three weeks since I stopped testosterone for the six days and two weeks since the new 8 mg per day dose.

I saw my endocrinologist after I stopped six days and told him where I wanted to reduce the dosage and he seemed fine with it and didn’t suggest to go slow or I would have.

Prior to this I think my levels were total testosterone about 900 and SHBG was still 16. I’ve been through a couple different docs over the last couple years and they didn’t usually check free testosterone but with the low SHBG I think it was in the 200s.

This has been the hardest three weeks of my life and could really use some advice.

I would ultimately like to get to free testosterone in lab range and total testosterone around 600 and see how I feel with that.

 

[Cataceous]

Plenty of guys will agree that dose reductions are tough. I'd say try to ride it out at this point. You should be better off in the long run with more physiological levels. A quote from @Blackhawk is appropriate: "It was living Hell having to reduce dose and go through withdrawal getting it right from there over the course of many months."

 

[MarcoFL]

So I really screwed up and reduced my dose from 15mg/dy to 8/mg day in one shot and now I’m really paying the price.

I’m 42 and have been on test for about five years and have low SHBG so I’ve gone to an every day protocol in the last couple years.

In January I started dieting and lost almost 20 pounds and at the end of the diet it got really fatigued so increased my dosage from 14 to 15 mg per day in hopes that that would help. After a few weeks of just crushing fatigue I got labs done and total testosterone was 1124 and free testosterone was 325 (lab range 35-155 pg/ml)with SHBG at 16 and us e2 was 40. I got really freaked out when I saw the free testosterone was over double the lab range and stopped testosterone completely for six days and then restarted at 8 mg per day. While dieting I also quit drinking any alcohol and really cleaned up my diet but then at the end with the fatigue stopped lifting weights and I think all of this increased my testosterone by quite a bit.

I realize now I should’ve made very small changes in my dose but I’m not sure what to do at this point. I have absolutely incredible anxiety and can barely function. I have obsessive thoughts muscle twitches and I am dizzy almost all the time. I’m at the point where I can barely function and I don’t think I can work anymore. I’ve been to the doctor and they prescribed me BuSpar and Clonopin as needed and they seem to help but I’m still miserable.

I wonder if at this point if I should just leave it alone or increase my dosage some and then slowly drop it down?

Also my hematocrit was it 50.8 so I donated blood to get that down and my LDL went up to 129 from 87.

It has been three weeks since I stopped testosterone for the six days and two weeks since the new 8 mg per day dose.

I saw my endocrinologist after I stopped six days and told him where I wanted to reduce the dosage and he seemed fine with it and didn’t suggest to go slow or I would have.

Prior to this I think my levels were total testosterone about 900 and SHBG was still 16. I’ve been through a couple different docs over the last couple years and they didn’t usually check free testosterone but with the low SHBG I think it was in the 200s.

This has been the hardest three weeks of my life and could really use some advice.

I would ultimately like to get to free testosterone in lab range and total testosterone around 600 and see how I feel with that.

You could have an iron issue with the blood donation adding to the fatigue.

 

[JayD]

Have you got an update for us

So I really screwed up and reduced my dose from 15mg/dy to 8/mg day in one shot and now I’m really paying the price.

I’m 42 and have been on test for about five years and have low SHBG so I’ve gone to an every day protocol in the last couple years.

In January I started dieting and lost almost 20 pounds and at the end of the diet it got really fatigued so increased my dosage from 14 to 15 mg per day in hopes that that would help. After a few weeks of just crushing fatigue I got labs done and total testosterone was 1124 and free testosterone was 325 (lab range 35-155 pg/ml)with SHBG at 16 and us e2 was 40. I got really freaked out when I saw the free testosterone was over double the lab range and stopped testosterone completely for six days and then restarted at 8 mg per day. While dieting I also quit drinking any alcohol and really cleaned up my diet but then at the end with the fatigue stopped lifting weights and I think all of this increased my testosterone by quite a bit.

I realize now I should’ve made very small changes in my dose but I’m not sure what to do at this point. I have absolutely incredible anxiety and can barely function. I have obsessive thoughts muscle twitches and I am dizzy almost all the time. I’m at the point where I can barely function and I don’t think I can work anymore. I’ve been to the doctor and they prescribed me BuSpar and Clonopin as needed and they seem to help but I’m still miserable.

I wonder if at this point if I should just leave it alone or increase my dosage some and then slowly drop it down?

Also my hematocrit was it 50.8 so I donated blood to get that down and my LDL went up to 129 from 87.

It has been three weeks since I stopped testosterone for the six days and two weeks since the new 8 mg per day dose.

I saw my endocrinologist after I stopped six days and told him where I wanted to reduce the dosage and he seemed fine with it and didn’t suggest to go slow or I would have.

Prior to this I think my levels were total testosterone about 900 and SHBG was still 16. I’ve been through a couple different docs over the last couple years and they didn’t usually check free testosterone but with the low SHBG I think it was in the 200s.

This has been the hardest three weeks of my life and could really use some advice.

I would ultimately like to get to free testosterone in lab range and total testosterone around 600 and see how I feel with that.

 

[wemmington]

Yes, I have an update, and I have to say this has been an absolute disaster.

They now have me on Prozac, BuSpar, and Klonopin full-time, but I’m finally starting to feel a little better but far from normal. New labs came back a couple of days ago at total test for 482 free test 108. It seems overcorrected, and now I’m taking naps during the day, and I’m so tired at night I can barely keep my eyes open. I went to the endocrinologist yesterday, and when he first saw my lab results, he says “oh, that looks great.” I told him that I was super tired and didn’t feel good, and he agreed to let me go up to 10 mg/day and retest in 3 months. My biggest issue at this point is I still have pretty severe anxiety and obsessive thoughts, and for some reason, I’ve developed a condition where I’m convinced I’m going to die of a heart attack or a stroke, and it consumes my thoughts all day long. I feel like all of a sudden, have a mental illness where I never did before.
I start the new dose today I’m hoping that helps with the anxiety but worry that another dose adjustment just my throw things out of whack even more. At this point I really just want to get into a normal range for my age so I’m shooting for a free testosterone of around 150.

I would love to hear any opinions.

 

[Gman86]

Yes, I have an update, and I have to say this has been an absolute disaster.

They now have me on Prozac, BuSpar, and Klonopin full-time, but I’m finally starting to feel a little better but far from normal. New labs came back a couple of days ago at total test for 482 free test 108. It seems overcorrected, and now I’m taking naps during the day, and I’m so tired at night I can barely keep my eyes open. I went to the endocrinologist yesterday, and when he first saw my lab results, he says “oh, that looks great.” I told him that I was super tired and didn’t feel good, and he agreed to let me go up to 10 mg/day and retest in 3 months. My biggest issue at this point is I still have pretty severe anxiety and obsessive thoughts, and for some reason, I’ve developed a condition where I’m convinced I’m going to die of a heart attack or a stroke, and it consumes my thoughts all day long. I feel like all of a sudden, have a mental illness where I never did before.
I start the new dose today I’m hoping that helps with the anxiety but worry that another dose adjustment just my throw things out of whack even more. At this point I really just want to get into a normal range for my age so I’m shooting for a free testosterone of around 150.

I would love to hear any opinions.

Everyone’s different, but for optimal mental health, meaning zero depression, anxiety and just feeling very happy and optimistic about life, I need my free T 250+. That’s minimum. I feel noticeably better mentally when it’s close to 400 tho. I’m referring to quest’s free T range btw, which is (46.0-224.0). Sometimes their free T range will only go up to around 150, but I like to go by the free T range which they had for years and years, and still do depending on which free T lab u get, which is the one with the reference range that goes up to 224

 

[Sergel]

How was your free T done? My lab calculates it, so it is not a real but a calculated value... I too have low shbg and my free t (bio available) is consistently high... I inject twice a week (E3.5d)... I found that high total T value makes me real anxious, palpitations etc... took me a while to lower my dose to start feeling better. My total t is now in the 600 range and my calculated free t is still high... but I feel 100% now... I felt like shit on too high of a dose... But as GMan86 was mentioning, free t is only one part of of the complete picture, you have to figure out what works for you...

Hope you get better soon..

 

[Systemlord]

In January I started dieting and lost almost 20 pounds and at the end of the diet it got really fatigued so increased my dosage from 14 to 15 mg per day in hopes that that would help. After a few weeks of just crushing fatigue I got labs done and total testosterone was 1124 and free testosterone was 325 (lab range 35-155 pg/ml)with SHBG at 16 and us e2 was 40.

You are most likely running low on nutrients, I would check iron at the very least. The higher your testosterone, the more demand for iron and if you short change yourself through dieting...

A ferritin test is the gold standard for iron status.

 

[HarryCat2]

Have you had thyroid labs done recently? Sometimes it is not just testosterone that can be off. Systemlord's recommendation on ferritin is also a good one.

 

[Saul]

They now have me on Prozac, BuSpar, and Klonopin full-time

If you read the side affects for these items, many match up with what you are complaining about. Have you consider if these may be causing your unwanted feelings?

 

[JayD]

S

Yes, I have an update, and I have to say this has been an absolute disaster.

They now have me on Prozac, BuSpar, and Klonopin full-time, but I’m finally starting to feel a little better but far from normal. New labs came back a couple of days ago at total test for 482 free test 108. It seems overcorrected, and now I’m taking naps during the day, and I’m so tired at night I can barely keep my eyes open. I went to the endocrinologist yesterday, and when he first saw my lab results, he says “oh, that looks great.” I told him that I was super tired and didn’t feel good, and he agreed to let me go up to 10 mg/day and retest in 3 months. My biggest issue at this point is I still have pretty severe anxiety and obsessive thoughts, and for some reason, I’ve developed a condition where I’m convinced I’m going to die of a heart attack or a stroke, and it consumes my thoughts all day long. I feel like all of a sudden, have a mental illness where I never did before.
I start the new dose today I’m hoping that helps with the anxiety but worry that another dose adjustment just my throw things out of whack even more. At this point I really just want to get into a normal range for my age so I’m shooting for a free testosterone of around 150.

I would love to hear any opinions.

Sorry to hear this. I'm starting TRT next month so interested in people's experience's. The general concensus I've observed here and on the internet, is ED or EOD injecting for Anxiety prone guys. Anxiety runs in my family, Genetics is a bitch. sometimes. I can also say sertraline has been far superior than prozac or citalapram for treating my anxiety. Also much less sides on sertraline.

 

[wemmington]

How was your free T done? My lab calculates it, so it is not a real but a calculated value... I too have low shbg and my free t (bio available) is consistently high... I inject twice a week (E3.5d)... I found that high total T value makes me real anxious, palpitations etc... took me a while to lower my dose to start feeling better. My total t is now in the 600 range and my calculated free t is still high... but I feel 100% now... I felt like shit on too high of a dose... But as GMan86 was mentioning, free t is only one part of of the complete picture, you have to figure out what works for you...

Hope you get better soon..

Not sure but here’s a pic of lab.

 

[wemmington]

Have you had thyroid labs done recently? Sometimes it is not just testosterone that can be off. Systemlord's recommendation on ferritin is also a good one.

They tested TSH when I was in the hospital for chest pain about a month ago.

 

[wemmington]

If you read the side affects for these items, many match up with what you are complaining about. Have you consider if these may be causing your unwanted feelings?

All these feelings were there before I started the medication, and I can’t say for sure that they’re not causing some of the problems now, but that’s what I hate about medication is how can one really know what’s going on when you’re taking multiple things. I hope to get off all of those medications as soon as possible. The doctor that’s got me on the meds wants to do one change at a time and I suppose that makes sense.

 

[wemmington]

You are most likely running low on nutrients, I would check iron at the very least. The higher your testosterone, the more demand for iron and if you short change yourself through dieting...

A ferritin test is the gold standard for iron status.

Good call checking iron. What should I do?

 

[Systemlord]

Good call checking iron. What should I do?

You need to start supplementing iron preferably iron chelate which is better absorbed and has less side effects. As far as dosing 100-200mg (65-75mg 3x daily) of the iron chelate or glycinate and it could take 2-3 months or longer to get your iron stores back up.

Once you do get your ferritin elevated and stabilized, a maintenance dosage will be needed.

I don't think your ferritin is this low simply by dieting, I think you might require iron supplementation for the foreseeable future while on TRT.

I have the same issue, I have normal iron stores when not on TRT, but once TRT is initiated ferritin levels drop from well over 100 down to 24 within 6 months which has happened not once but on two separate occasions.

 

[wemmington]

So yeah, my testosterone was high, and that gave me high hematocrit and then donated blood twice in two weeks which obviously dropped my iron quite a bit at the same time between dieting till now I’ve cut out white rice and sweet potato and swap them out for whole-grain bread and eating a lot of almonds which apparently inhibit iron absorption. Also, cut out almost all red meat started drinking way more coffee and combat fatigue, and started taking anti-acids on the off chance the chest pain is caused from acid reflux, and from what I’ve read, all these things inhibit iron absorption. Also haven’t taken my multivitamin like three or four months.

Talk about doing all the wrong things!

I don’t think I could’ve tanked my iron anymore if I tried!

 

[wemmington]

Are there any other labs that anyone recommends? Is the any pointing gettin the iron lab or is ferritin sufficient? I am going to get B vitamin,full thyroid,and vitamin D.

 

[Systemlord]

started taking anti-acids on the off chance the chest pain is caused from acid reflux, and from what I’ve read, all these things inhibit iron absorption.

Correct, gastric acidity promotes intestinal absorption of nonheme iron. These anti-acids can cause other deficiencies as well, I personally experienced potassium problems when on anti-acids.

When my vitamin C is low normal and I eat something, I develop a hacking cough and for the longest time my doctors thought I had acid reflux which is how I ended up on anti-acids.

You got to love western medicine!

 

[Saul]

Are there any other labs that anyone recommends? Is the any pointing gettin the iron lab or is ferritin sufficient? I am going to get B vitamin,full thyroid,and vitamin D.

If you are low on iron, you should get a full iron panel. If you can't get the full panel, then focus on Ferritin. Ferritin will be the most important as it is an indicator of iron stores, which your body draws on to make new RBC.