Kidneys and Citrulline

[Vince Carter]

Ive been getting what I think is some very minor kidney pains lately. I am consistently hitting over a gallon of water thru the day, and I've eliminated my use of Creatine in my pre-workout @ appx 5grams.

Knowing Citrulline passes thru the kidneys and converts to Arginine I started to wonder if that's stressing the kidneys. Admittedly I use A LOT of it...I don't measure it per se, big scoop and away I go. That's really just once per day in my pre-workout though I can use a much smaller dose in the AM when I get up.

I have been mixing Agmatine with the L-Citrulline ( not MALATE...tastes awful), and that too, is not a measured dose.

Urinary output is not clouded or otherwise questionable, is pale yellow according to my hydration level...nothing out of the ordinary/expected here.

No history of kidney disease but I can get close to the lab range on Creatinine tests if I don't fast for 12hrs and otherwise be out of the gym for 72hrs. The tests do not reflect my body weight at 220lbs, the high protein diet, muscle mass...and all of that so I've not taken a lot of notice of those tests.

19 Feb 19
Creatinine 1.55 (high) (.60 - 1.35)
eGFR 53 (low) (7-25)
Bun/Creatinine ratio 9 (6-22)

18 Jan 19
Creatinine 1.49 (high)
BUN 23 (7-25)
eGFR 55 (low) (> or =60)
BUN/Creat ratio 15 (6-22)

6 Jul 18
Creatinine 1.31
eGFR 65
BUN 18
BUN/Creat ratio N/A

I can go to Citrulline alone and measure that dose, seems the logical next step. That and I can eliminate the Citrulline in those 72hrs prior to a blood test and see what I get.

 

[Leesto]

I'll be curious to hear how those changes work for you Vince!

 

[hotdog]

Vince, to avoid worrying about kidneys get a cystatin-C blood test done, Nelson's lab has one.

 

[Vince Carter]

Im adding that to my next set of labs. Thanks!

 

[Vince]

Do you supplement with creatine? I stopped completely supplementing with creatine and now my Creatinine levels are in a good range.

 

[HealthMan]

I posted here somewhere (can’t find it) one study showing that L-citruline -> L-arginine can increase creatine -> creatinine. Cytastine C is a good idea. It is not correlated to muscle mass. Unfortunately most health insurances don’t cover but at discountlabs it is not that expensive

 

[Vince Carter]

Do you supplement with creatine? I stopped completely supplementing with creatine and now my Creatinine levels are in a good range.

I cut it out entirely about a month ago, was using 5-7g in my pre-workout.

 

[Vince Carter]

I posted here somewhere (can’t find it) one study showing that L-citruline -> L-arginine can increase creatine -> creatinine. Cytastine C is a good idea. It is not correlated to muscle mass. Unfortunately most health insurances don’t cover but at discountlabs it is not that expensive

Will report on the Cytastin C result, will be a few weeks though. I'll follow my no gym strategy for 72hrs prior and will also cut the Citrulline use, too, in the time period.

 

[hotdog]

Here's some fun facts to be aware of when testing Creatinine level. My thoughts are that since there are pharmaceuticals that raise Creatinine I wonder how many other compounds out there do the same thing.

Know the Medications That Spuriously Elevate the Serum Creatinine Level.

In a number of scenarios, the serum creatinine level can increase without reflecting a change in the actual GFR. The antibiotic trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim) and the H2-blocker cimetidine are 2 commonly used drugs that decrease the secretion of creatinine. This can result in a self-limited and reversible increase in the serum creatinine level of as much as 0.4 to 0.5 mg/dL (depending on baseline serum creatinine level). Famotidine and ranitidine can likewise cause an increase but to a lesser degree. The antibiotic cefoxitin can spuriously increase the serum creatinine level by interfering with the colorimetric assay used to measure serum creatinine levels.3 In both instances, the blood urea nitrogen (BUN) typically does not change. As such, an increase in creatinine level suggests a true decrease in GFR only if accompanied by a corresponding increase in BUN levels.

The Top 10 Things Nephrologists Wish Every Primary Care Physician Knew

 

[52hoosier]

Creatine gave me bad labs on my kidneys. I stopped it and they returned to normal. No issues with L-Citrulline Malate.

 

[HealthMan]

Will report on the Cytastin C result, will be a few weeks though. I'll follow my no gym strategy for 72hrs prior and will also cut the Citrulline use, too, in the time period.

Keep us posted. My creatinine is always at or just above range since i was 20 yo. I am very muscular so i dont worry about neither does my doctor. Creatine and Citrulline both negatively impacted my creatinine.

 

[JimGainz]

My creatinine level jumped a few years ago after my first and only cycle of Sarms and never came
down. Since then, I’ve gone on TRT and put on about 10 lbs of muscle. My Creatinine level is always around 1.36-1.44 and an EGFR value of 55-60. My Urologist is not concerned a bit - he said androgens increase Creatinine plus I lift weights regularly (also a contributor). My cystatin C is normal, which is the gold standard in measuring kidney disease. Also, check out the National Kidney Foundation website and check out the formulas for measuring eGFR (if you factor in your real body weight and other variables from a recent blood test you will see that you are most likely normal). EGFR (a measure of kidney disease) is based off of Creatinine and a body mass of about 150 lbs). When you adjust for your real weight - the amount of Creatinine produced is likely in line for your mass.
Lastly, glad you dropped the creatine supplement. No matter what the studies show - every one I know had elevated Creatinine from taking it - including myself.

 

[Vince Carter]

Also, check out the National Kidney Foundation website and check out the formulas for measuring eGFR (if you factor in your real body weight and other variables from a recent blood test you will see that you are most likely normal). EGFR (a measure of kidney disease) is based off of Creatinine and a body mass of about 150 lbs). When you adjust for your real weight - the amount of Creatinine produced is likely in line for your mass.

Thank you for this. I used the calc by googling it and did see that by adding my height and weight and age that my GFR is actually quite a bit higher about 10-15 points higher than the blood test is showing.

 

[HealthMan]

The only one thing to be aware. EGFR is not a good predictor of true GFR for muscular individuals but if your diet, weight, etc are the same and your EGFR keeps dropping this is worth investigating further. If you added or increased creatine dosage or added a new medication, gained a lot of muscle etc then probably not something to worry about. To be sure get the creatinine clearance test done or cystatin C

 

[Vince Carter]

admittedly about 2 years or so ago my RN at the regular Dr really got in my head about Kidney function so though I factor in muscle mass, age, wieght and all that that we've talked about here, it still rattles around in my head every time I see Creatinine elevated.

 

[HealthMan]

admittedly about 2 years or so ago my RN at the regular Dr really got in my head about Kidney function so though I factor in muscle mass, age, wieght and all that that we've talked about here, it still rattles around in my head every time I see Creatinine elevated.

Get a creatinine clearance done and clear this doubt you have. I had this done a long time ago when my old doctor saw my creatinine at 1.4-1.45 in my mid 20s. At the time i was 216 lb of pure muscle. I am a bit lighter now and last time i had bloodwork done my creatinine was 1.27. I have my creatinine data for the last 15 years and it is extremely stable. And it is amazing to see the correlation to my lean body mass.

 

[Vince Carter]

Thank you for that advice, I'll see what the Cystatin-C comes back with and then go that route if I need to. @HealthMan

 

[HealthMan]

Thank you for that advice, I'll see what the Cystatin-C comes back with and then go that route if I need to. @HealthMan

Goos stuff! Results will come back good!

 

[Vince Carter]

Seems that all is well based on Cystatin-C with eGFR:

Cystatin-C 0.93 (0.52-1.27)
eGFR 91 (>or=60)

Standard tests:
Creatinine 1.45 (.60-1.35)
eGFR 57 (>or=60)

No Creatine use, and I was out of the gym over 72hrs and no Citrulline during that time either.

 

[Tednacious73]

I'm experiencing the same creatinine elevations after starting citrulline as part of Gene's stack, mine went from 1.32 to 1.45. My eGFR also dropped from 65 to 58. I have a consultation with Defy coming up, are these numbers a concern or should I just continue taking the citrulline?