is my hemo and hematocrit crazy high or ???

[whoremoan]

hello all
just got bloods back last week

haemoglobin is 200 (reference range 125 - 175)
RBC 6.40 (reference range 4.50-6.50)
RDW 14.7 (reference range 11-15)
HCT 0.61 (reference range 0.40-0.55)
platelets 167 (reference range 150-450)

now i have alot of people telling me i was just dehyrdrated before test as i got my blood drawn after i dropped kids at school and was rushing and didnt drink any water

BUT i went to donate blood yesterday fully hydrated and they started but stopped as they said my haemoglobin was 195 and their cut off is 188
so within a few days i dropped 5 points too ?

also i had all these tests done 4 months ago BUT i was on telmisartan 40mg then and all these markers were fine so i tried to stop telmisartan after, and here i am now
what would you guys suggest from here ?
they wont let me donate for another 2 weeks or they see my iron levels are fine ?

should i beg my doc to bloodlet me or something as simple as getting back on telmisartan at 40mg again ?

also on trt, and kidneys level, hormones etc are all spot on ... just the haemoglobin and hematocrit off

should i be really worried ?? a bit new to this

 

[RickB]

BUT i went to donate blood yesterday fully hydrated and they started but stopped as they said my haemoglobin was 195 and their cut off is 188
so within a few days i dropped 5 points too ?

I can't help, but weren't you expecting your hemoglobin reading to have dropped due to being fully hydrated?

 

[whoremoan]

I can't help, but weren't you expecting your hemoglobin reading to have dropped due to being fully hydrated?

well yes and it did, not sure about hematocrit though as they only said we cant take the blood as your haemoglobin is too high, they didnt mention anything about hematocrit

i was only 6 points off too

 

[BigTex]

During exercise and physical activity, the body needs more oxygen than during usual daily activities. All the need for oxygen in the muscles is obtained from the bloodstream.

For the body to physiologically adjust according to the demands of increased activity, there is increased red cell production. More hemoglobin means more oxygen to give to the muscles which directly relates to the ability of the heart, lungs, and blood to do physical activity.

A higher concentration of hemoglobin equals higher athletic performance. This is the reason why athletes have erythrocytosis.

Abstract​

Exercise training can increase total Hb and red cell mass, which enhances oxygen-carrying capacity. The possible underlying mechanisms are proposed to come mainly from bone marrow, including stimulated erythropoiesis with hyperplasia of the hematopoietic bone marrow, improvement of the hematopoietic microenvironment induced by exercise training, and hormone- and cytokine-accelerated erythropoiesis. Anemia is one of the most common medical conditions in chronic disease. The effects of exercise training on counteracting anemia have been explored and evaluated. The results of the research available to date are controversial, and it seems that significant methodological limitations exist. However, exercise training might be a promising, additional, safe and economical method to help improve anemia. There is a need for further investigation into the effects of and guidelines for exercise interventions (especially strength training) in this population of patients, particularly among cancer patients who are undergoing or have undergone chemotherapy or radiation treatments. As the available data are limited, additional research to uncover the underlying mechanisms associated with the effects of exercise training on anemia is clearly warranted.

Effects of exercise training on red blood cell production: implications for anemia - PubMed

Exercise training can increase total Hb and red cell mass, which enhances oxygen-carrying capacity. The possible underlying mechanisms are proposed to come mainly from bone marrow, including stimulated erythropoiesis with hyperplasia of the hematopoietic bone marrow, improvement of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is this only true with endurance exercise of is it true with resistance exercise, especially as intensity increases? Lets look at resistance training's effect on blood variables.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640410410001730151

Abstract
The aim of this study was to examine short-term changes in blood rheological variables after a single bout of resistance exercise. Twenty-one healthy males completed three sets of 5 – 7 repetitions of six exercises at an intensity corresponding to 80% of one-repetition maximum (1-RM). The average duration of the exercise bout was 35 min. Venous blood samples were obtained before exercise, immediately after exercise and after 30 min of recovery and analysed for lactate, red blood cell count, haematocrit, haemoglobin, plasma viscosity, fibrinogen, total protein and albumin concentration. Plasma volume decreased 10.1% following resistance exercise. This occurred in parallel with an increase of 5.6%, 5.4% and 6.2% in red blood cell count, haemoglobin and haematocrit; respectively. Plasma viscosity increased from 1.55 ± 0.01 to 1.64 ± 0.01 mPa · s immediately after resistance exercise before decreasing to 1.57 ± 0.01 mPa · s at the end of the recovery period. Similarly, fibrinogen, albumin and total protein increased significantly following resistance exercise. However, the rises in all these rheological parameters were transient and returned to pre-exercise values by the end of recovery. We conclude that a single session of heavy resistance exercise performed by normal healthy individuals alters blood rheological variables and that these changes are transient and could be attributed to exercise-induced haemoconcentration.

The authors write: To our knowledge, this is the first study to examine the effect of a 6-month resistance training program in older men and women. Our results demonstrate that intense resistance training seems to provide neither improvement nor detrimental effects on general hematological blood parameters in healthy older individuals. Nonetheless, further studies with a greater sample size are necessary to confirm these results.

These subjects were sedentary individuals, how does this change with highly trained individuals.

More.....

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

Abstract​

---

Formation of the blood clot is a slow but normal physiological process occurring as a result of the activation of blood coagulation pathways. Nature's guard against unwanted blood clots is the fibrinolytic enzyme system. In healthy people, there is a delicate dynamic balance between blood clot formation and blood clot dissolution. Available evidence suggests that exercise and physical training evoke multiple effects on blood hemostasis in normal healthy subjects and in patients. A single bout of exercise is usually associated with a transient increase in blood coagulation as evidenced by a shortening of activated partial thromboplastin time (APTT) and increased Factor VIII (FVIII). The rise in FVIII is intensity dependent and continues into recovery. The effects of acute exercise on plasma fibrinogen have yielded conflicting results. Thus, the issue of whether exercise-induced blood hypercoagulability in vitro mirrors an in vivo thrombin generation and fibrin formation remains disputable. Exercise-induced enhancement of fibrinolysis has been repeatedly demonstrated using a wide range of exercise protocols incorporating various exercise intensities and durations. Moderate exercise appears to enhance blood fibrinolytic activity without a concomitant activation of blood coagulation mechanisms, whereas, very heavy exercise induces simultaneous activation of blood fibrinolysis and coagulation. The increase in fibrinolysis is due to a rise in tissue-type plasminogen activator (tPA) and decrease in plasminogen activator inhibitor (PAI). The mechanism of exercise-induced hyperfibrinolysis is poorly understood, and the physiological utility of such activation remains unresolved. Strenuous exercise elicits a transient increase in platelet count, but there are conflicting results concerning the effect of exercise on platelet aggregation and activation. Few comprehensive studies exist concerning the influence of exercise training on blood hemostasis, making future investigation necessary to identify whether there are favorable effects of exercise training on blood coagulation, fibrinolysis, and platelet functions.

Another study done on inactive younger men 20-45

Seasonal Variation of Red Blood Cell Variables in Physically Inactive Men: Effects of Strength Training

Thieme E-Books & E-Journals

www.thieme-connect.com

Abstract​

The purpose of this study was to investigate if strength training affects red blood cell variables in physically inactive men when taking into account seasonal variations. Seventy-four men aged 20 - 45 were randomly assigned to training (n = 52) and control (n = 22) groups. Training group underwent 20-week progressive strength training. Body composition and maximal voluntary contraction (MVC) during knee extension were measured before and after intervention. Fasting blood samples were analysed for haematocrit (Hct), count of red blood cells (RBC), haemoglobin (Hb), mean cell haemoglobin concentration (MCHC), and mean cell volume (MCV) at baseline, 10-week and 20-week follow-up. MVC and lean body mass increased in the training group. Hct, Hb and MCHC showed seasonal variation in the control group. The training group increased their Hct from 44.7 ± 2.6 % to 45.4 ± 2.5 % (p = 0.026) while the control group decreased their Hct from 44.3 ± 2.2 % to 43.1 ± 2.6 % (p = 0.037) after 20-week intervention. By contrast to the control group, the training group increased their Hct (p = 0.001), RBC (p = 0.005) and decreased their MCHC (p < 0.001) from 10-week to 20-week follow-up. We concluded that strength training could affect seasonal variation patterns of red cell variables. Unlike “sport anaemia” induced by endurance training, 20-week strength training elevated Hct.

I have lots of questions as to how the changes with highly trained individuals and timing of blood tests. Obviously exercise type and intensity cause changes in the red blood cells as an adaptation to exercise but there is very little research done in this area.

 

[tareload]

hello all
just got bloods back last week

haemoglobin is 200 (reference range 125 - 175)
RBC 6.40 (reference range 4.50-6.50)
RDW 14.7 (reference range 11-15)
HCT 0.61 (reference range 0.40-0.55)
platelets 167 (reference range 150-450)

now i have alot of people telling me i was just dehyrdrated before test as i got my blood drawn after i dropped kids at school and was rushing and didnt drink any water

BUT i went to donate blood yesterday fully hydrated and they started but stopped as they said my haemoglobin was 195 and their cut off is 188
so within a few days i dropped 5 points too ?

also i had all these tests done 4 months ago BUT i was on telmisartan 40mg then and all these markers were fine so i tried to stop telmisartan after, and here i am now
what would you guys suggest from here ?
they wont let me donate for another 2 weeks or they see my iron levels are fine ?

should i beg my doc to bloodlet me or something as simple as getting back on telmisartan at 40mg again ?

also on trt, and kidneys level, hormones etc are all spot on ... just the haemoglobin and hematocrit off

should i be really worried ?? a bit new to this

Yes too high. Therapeutic phlebotomy short term and go get this figured out with hematologist. Stat.

 

[tareload]

higher concentration of hemoglobin equals higher athletic performance. This is the reason why athletes have erythrocytosis.

Not quite. Maybe up to a point. There is a local maximum.

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/does-high-hematocrit-lead-to-complications-for-men-on-trt/268171/65 Update on my experiment with 325 mg/day of aspirin. Potent reduction in Hct while on TRT. One of the few supplements I've tried that really had a significant effect on Hct. Please consider the...

www.excelmale.com

Stroke-Related Mortality at Different Altitudes: A 17-Year Nationwide Population-Based Analysis From Ecuador.

Living at higher elevation with higher hematocrit may decrease cardiovascular risk! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8525493/...

www.excelmale.com

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/does-high-hematocrit-lead-to-complications-for-men-on-trt/268171/65 Update on my experiment with 325 mg/day of aspirin. Potent reduction in Hct while on TRT. One of the few supplements I've tried that really had a significant effect on Hct. Please consider the...

www.excelmale.com

high hematocrit/hemoglobin - what to do

@ readalot You are responding to something I never said to create a gotcha-moment. I did not claim absence of evidence equals evidence of no risk of high hematocrit on TRT, I merely pointed out that you have no evidence proving otherwise, although to an unaware reader your post implies you do.

www.excelmale.com

 

[Systemlord]

RDW 14.7 (reference range 11-15)

RDW is usually on the higher end when approaching iron deficiency. Mine was over the range when iron deficient even though hemoglobin was normal.

MCV is bottomed out when there is iron insufficiency or deficiency.

 

[tareload]

RDW is usually on the higher end when approaching iron deficiency. Mine was over the range when iron deficient even though hemoglobin was normal.

MCV is bottomed out when there is iron insufficiency or deficiency.

He's got an Hgb of 20 and Hct of 60 and you are doing some vague comments on his RDW. Ouch.

Go get help OP.

Screen for hemochromatosis and sleep apnea. What are you taking?

 

[BigTex]

Not quite. Maybe up to a point. There is a local maximum.

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/does-high-hematocrit-lead-to-complications-for-men-on-trt/268171/65 Update on my experiment with 325 mg/day of aspirin. Potent reduction in Hct while on TRT. One of the few supplements I've tried that really had a significant effect on Hct. Please consider the...

www.excelmale.com

Stroke-Related Mortality at Different Altitudes: A 17-Year Nationwide Population-Based Analysis From Ecuador.

Living at higher elevation with higher hematocrit may decrease cardiovascular risk! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8525493/...

www.excelmale.com

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/does-high-hematocrit-lead-to-complications-for-men-on-trt/268171/65 Update on my experiment with 325 mg/day of aspirin. Potent reduction in Hct while on TRT. One of the few supplements I've tried that really had a significant effect on Hct. Please consider the...

www.excelmale.com

high hematocrit/hemoglobin - what to do

@ readalot You are responding to something I never said to create a gotcha-moment. I did not claim absence of evidence equals evidence of no risk of high hematocrit on TRT, I merely pointed out that you have no evidence proving otherwise, although to an unaware reader your post implies you do.

www.excelmale.com

Well the %'s blood parameters went up from exercise were only a few points (44.7 ± 2.6 % to 45.4 ± 2.5 % ). They also seem to return to base line in ~35 minutes. My question is how much does this differ from untrained individuals to highly trained individuals. There seems to be very little research in this area, especially in high intensity, short duration exercise.

As you see I am stabbing in the dark on what I am going to do to solve my own HCT issues. My other question is how reliable are the finger pricks they do at the blood centers? Are they as close as what Quest would get? My doctor says no way. The blood center got me at 55% so I am thinking I am probably at 52% now, with Quest maybe lower. Maybe I just need to be patient with this and go two more times to dump blood.

My test cyp dose is supposed to be today, I am thinking not doing it and instead going 15mg of test base transdermal until Thursday when I go to the doctor and see what happens when he tests HCT. I know this stuff has a very short half life. But maybe it will substitute what I need and allow the HCT to fall more.

This was CBC testing from 1-17:

WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 8.1 Reference Range: 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.65 Reference Range: 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 18.3 H Reference Range: 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 53.9 H Reference Range: 38.5-50.0 %
MCV 95.4 Reference Range: 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 32.4 Reference Range: 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 34.0 Reference Range: 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 12.7 Reference Range: 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 231 Reference Range: 140-400 Thousand/uL
MPV 10.2 Reference Range: 7.5-12.5 fL
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 5638 Reference Range: 1500-7800 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1571 Reference Range: 850-3900 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 721 Reference Range: 200-950 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 130 Reference Range: 15-500 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 41 Reference Range: 0-200 cells/uL
NEUTROPHILS 69.6 %
LYMPHOCYTES 19.4 %
MONOCYTES 8.9 %
EOSINOPHILS 1.6 %
BASOPHILS 0.5 %

 

[whoremoan]

He's got an Hgb of 20 and Hct of 60 and you are doing some vague comments on his RDW. Ouch.

Go get help OP.

Screen for hemochromatosis and sleep apnea. What are you taking?

4 months ago i was on telmisartan and every thing was within in range and i was on a cycle then lol
i since dropped the telmisartan and running 200mg test c a week plus 500iu hcg split twice a week and 12.5 aromasin day after hcg

i just started back on telmisartan 3 days ago at 40 mg

i will be getting sleep study hopefully today at doctors, i think i definetly have sleep apnea

im hoping i can avoid phlebotomy and i can things in range within 2 weeks so i can donate blood, if i do phlebotomy i wont be able to donate for another few months

i was 6 points too high on haemoglobin to be able to donate, so i was very close

 

[BigTex]

i was 6 points too high on haemoglobin to be able to donate, so i was very close

Have your doctor write and order for a blood dump

 

[tareload]

Well the %'s blood parameters went up from exercise were only a few points (44.7 ± 2.6 % to 45.4 ± 2.5 % ). They also seem to return to base line in ~35 minutes. My question is how much does this differ from untrained individuals to highly trained individuals. There seems to be very little research in this area, especially in high intensity, short duration exercise.

As you see I am stabbing in the dark on what I am going to do to solve my own HCT issues. My other question is how reliable are the finger pricks they do at the blood centers? Are they as close as what Quest would get? My doctor says no way. The blood center got me at 55% so I am thinking I am probably at 52% now, with Quest maybe lower. Maybe I just need to be patient with this and go two more times to dump blood.

My test cyp dose is supposed to be today, I am thinking not doing it and instead going 15mg of test base transdermal until Thursday when I go to the doctor and see what happens when he tests HCT. I know this stuff has a very short half life. But maybe it will substitute what I need and allow the HCT to fall more.

This was CBC testing from 1-17:

WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 8.1 Reference Range: 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.65 Reference Range: 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 18.3 H Reference Range: 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 53.9 H Reference Range: 38.5-50.0 %
MCV 95.4 Reference Range: 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 32.4 Reference Range: 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 34.0 Reference Range: 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 12.7 Reference Range: 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 231 Reference Range: 140-400 Thousand/uL
MPV 10.2 Reference Range: 7.5-12.5 fL
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 5638 Reference Range: 1500-7800 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1571 Reference Range: 850-3900 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 721 Reference Range: 200-950 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 130 Reference Range: 15-500 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 41 Reference Range: 0-200 cells/uL
NEUTROPHILS 69.6 %
LYMPHOCYTES 19.4 %
MONOCYTES 8.9 %
EOSINOPHILS 1.6 %
BASOPHILS 0.5 %

I like your idea with test base to test hypothesis.

More data in elite athletes.
Is low dose nandrolone safe?

See second paper on delta during strenuous session.

 

[tareload]

running 200mg test c a week

was on a cycle then lol

Bingo. Best wishes on the sleep study and your "TRT" dose is high. Or cruise I guess is better term.

I'd be in same spot on that dose if my heart didn't afib out first.

 

[whoremoan]

Have your doctor write and order for a blood dump

just got back from fuckhead doctor and she wouldnt do anything, she wanted to "figure the root of the cause first" my usual doc is back next week from holiday , and he can dump the blood on the spot

 

[whoremoan]

Bingo. Best wishes on the sleep study and your "TRT" dose is high. Or cruise I guess is better term.

I'd be in same spot on that dose if my heart didn't afib out first.

with the telmisartan results, i was on a big cycle as i compete in bodybuilding , and all my numbers were in range
(this was 4 months ago)

if telmisartan got all my numbers back in range, would you be still looking at blood letting ?

i want to definetly donate as i want to help someones life, but at the moment im worried im going to have a heart attack or something lol alot of people said its ok and not to panic as its fixable, is this right ?

 

[BigTex]

just got back from fuckhead doctor and she wouldnt do anything, she wanted to "figure the root of the cause first" my usual doc is back next week from holiday , and he can dump the blood on the spot

Nothing wrong with getting to the root of the cause. I am doing that it it costing a fortune. $1500 just in genetic blood disorder tests (all negative). So far, nothing but blaming the very small amount of testosterone I am using. So I took the liberty to stop my testosterone cypionate and see myself if that is the issue. Seems like we have eliminated many causes but still guessing at the problem.

 

[BigTex]

I like your idea with test base to test hypothesis.

More data in elite athletes.
Is low dose nandrolone safe?

See second paper on delta during strenuous session.

I got started on that yesterday. Believe it or not, I can feel 15mg of test base much more than 40mg of test cyp. It is very short acting and would be excellent to do before training. I will see if this is going to lower HCT or is enough to replace the test cyp or I need to go to either test U or test E.

 

[whoremoan]

Nothing wrong with getting to the root of the cause. I am doing that it it costing a fortune. $1500 just in genetic blood disorder tests (all negative). So far, nothing but blaming the very small amount of testosterone I am using. So I took the liberty to stop my testosterone cypionate and see myself if that is the issue. Seems like we have eliminated many causes but still guessing at the problem.

i agree with getting to the root of the problem, but she didnt care at all
she gave me a questionaire to fill out with 8 or so questions and then said make another appointment and bring it back , i said i could just do them now it will take a few seconds, she said bring it back next apointment - her next app was 2 weeks away,, i said i could do them now and we could get the ball rolling today, im waking up choking to the point ive thrown up,, she didnt care i was just a number
all she was worried about was who the doctor was who prescribed me telmisartan
my usaly doctor is on long service leave so i was stuck with that control freak

she could prescribed me a blood let and atleast get my panic levels down , but she wanted to solve the mystery first - FUCK THAT

keep in mind that questionnare was just to see if i needed a sleep study test
literally everything on the querstionare i told her
i wake up choking sometimes freaking out

 

[AMPS]

hello all
just got bloods back last week

haemoglobin is 200 (reference range 125 - 175)
RBC 6.40 (reference range 4.50-6.50)
RDW 14.7 (reference range 11-15)
HCT 0.61 (reference range 0.40-0.55)
platelets 167 (reference range 150-450)

now i have alot of people telling me i was just dehyrdrated before test as i got my blood drawn after i dropped kids at school and was rushing and didnt drink any water

BUT i went to donate blood yesterday fully hydrated and they started but stopped as they said my haemoglobin was 195 and their cut off is 188
so within a few days i dropped 5 points too ?

also i had all these tests done 4 months ago BUT i was on telmisartan 40mg then and all these markers were fine so i tried to stop telmisartan after, and here i am now
what would you guys suggest from here ?
they wont let me donate for another 2 weeks or they see my iron levels are fine ?

should i beg my doc to bloodlet me or something as simple as getting back on telmisartan at 40mg again ?

also on trt, and kidneys level, hormones etc are all spot on ... just the haemoglobin and hematocrit off

should i be really worried ?? a bit new to this

Yes you should be worried, it might be inaccurate results, but if your having headaches, extremity weakness or heaviness in your legs or chest you should see a doctor right away.

 

[BigTex]

i agree with getting to the root of the problem, but she didnt care at all
she gave me a questionaire to fill out with 8 or so questions and then said make another appointment and bring it back , i said i could just do them now it will take a few seconds, she said bring it back next apointment - her next app was 2 weeks away,, i said i could do them now and we could get the ball rolling today, im waking up choking to the point ive thrown up,, she didnt care i was just a number
all she was worried about was who the doctor was who prescribed me telmisartan
my usaly doctor is on long service leave so i was stuck with that control freak

she could prescribed me a blood let and atleast get my panic levels down , but she wanted to solve the mystery first - FUCK THAT

keep in mind that questionnare was just to see if i needed a sleep study test
literally everything on the querstionare i told her
i wake up choking sometimes freaking out

Might be time to start looking for another doctor. If you are just a number, you are not going to get the attention you need and that is showing. I completely understand your panic levels being up. My wife freaked out the time before last when my blood was so thick it stopped the blood machine and she had to force the blood through several different times. This time it at least flowed like water.