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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
How to Predict Estradiol and DHT at Different Testosterone Doses
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<blockquote data-quote="tareload" data-source="post: 224617"><p>[USER=3]@Nelson Vergel[/USER] that is a good point and <em>quite different</em> than <a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/should-we-be-managing-estradiol-and-hematocrit-in-men-on-testosterone-replacement.10592/post-224312" target="_blank">stating that healthy young men not on TRT would often/typically run an E2 70 pg/ml or higher</a>. As shown below, if many of these guys on TRT/TOT have a TT/fT AUC much higher than their counterparts inside the physiologic range, then there's no reason why they wouldn't also have E2 levels above the physiologic range.</p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/tnation/uploads/default/original/4X/e/f/4/ef4d735ce4d1873ef290335f95456a4dbe854f7d.png" class="bbImage" alt="" data-url="https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/tnation/uploads/default/original/4X/e/f/4/ef4d735ce4d1873ef290335f95456a4dbe854f7d.png" style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Summary of information from director of “popular/leading” TRT/TOT clinic. This ellipse covers vast majority of the patients (>10,000 patients). Median dosing is 140 mg/week (range is 100 to 180 mg/week for most). You can see what that means in terms of mean TT levels (about half in range and the other half above range <strong>for mean TT</strong>). This graph collapses all the dosing strategies (E7D, E3.5D, EOD, ED) onto one plot using approach I shared previously:</p><table class='post-table ' style='width: 100%'><tr><th></th><th ><p>mean/trough ratio</p></th><th ><p>peak/trough ratio</p></th><th ><p>peak/mean ratio</p></th><th ><p>check math</p></th></tr><tr><td ><p>q7d</p></td><td ><p>1.60</p></td><td ><p>2.13</p></td><td ><p>1.33</p></td><td ><p>1.33</p></td></tr><tr><td ><p>q3.5d</p></td><td ><p>1.20</p></td><td ><p>1.40</p></td><td ><p>1.10</p></td><td ><p>1.17</p></td></tr><tr><td ><p>qod</p></td><td ><p>1.09</p></td><td ><p>1.14</p></td><td ><p>1.05</p></td><td ><p>1.05</p></td></tr><tr><td ><p>qed</p></td><td ><p>1.03</p></td><td ><p>1.05</p></td><td ><p>1.02</p></td><td ><p>1.02</p></td></tr></table>After a lot of argue with Danny Bossa (and to be fair and unbiased once I had the data) I wanted to share this plot as it shows many many guys are running supra <em>at some point or all of the week</em> and seeming to do well. Long term who knows. I respect the MD I got this info from so you can see the median is very close (140 mg/week) to Danny’s touted starting dosage of 150 mg/week. This provider is not running his patients to fT levels of 30-50 or 50+ ng/dl but there are a good fraction running up to 30 ng/dl.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tareload, post: 224617"] [USER=3]@Nelson Vergel[/USER] that is a good point and [I]quite different[/I] than [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/should-we-be-managing-estradiol-and-hematocrit-in-men-on-testosterone-replacement.10592/post-224312']stating that healthy young men not on TRT would often/typically run an E2 70 pg/ml or higher[/URL]. As shown below, if many of these guys on TRT/TOT have a TT/fT AUC much higher than their counterparts inside the physiologic range, then there's no reason why they wouldn't also have E2 levels above the physiologic range. [IMG]https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/tnation/uploads/default/original/4X/e/f/4/ef4d735ce4d1873ef290335f95456a4dbe854f7d.png[/IMG] Summary of information from director of “popular/leading” TRT/TOT clinic. This ellipse covers vast majority of the patients (>10,000 patients). Median dosing is 140 mg/week (range is 100 to 180 mg/week for most). You can see what that means in terms of mean TT levels (about half in range and the other half above range [B]for mean TT[/B]). This graph collapses all the dosing strategies (E7D, E3.5D, EOD, ED) onto one plot using approach I shared previously: [TABLE][TR][TH][/TH] [TH]mean/trough ratio[/TH] [TH]peak/trough ratio[/TH] [TH]peak/mean ratio[/TH] [TH]check math[/TH][/TR] [TR][TD] q7d [/TD] [TD] 1.60 [/TD] [TD] 2.13 [/TD] [TD] 1.33 [/TD] [TD] 1.33 [/TD][/TR] [TR][TD] q3.5d [/TD] [TD] 1.20 [/TD] [TD] 1.40 [/TD] [TD] 1.10 [/TD] [TD] 1.17 [/TD][/TR] [TR][TD] qod [/TD] [TD] 1.09 [/TD] [TD] 1.14 [/TD] [TD] 1.05 [/TD] [TD] 1.05 [/TD][/TR] [TR][TD] qed [/TD] [TD] 1.03 [/TD] [TD] 1.05 [/TD] [TD] 1.02 [/TD] [TD] 1.02 [/TD][/TR][/TABLE] After a lot of argue with Danny Bossa (and to be fair and unbiased once I had the data) I wanted to share this plot as it shows many many guys are running supra [I]at some point or all of the week[/I] and seeming to do well. Long term who knows. I respect the MD I got this info from so you can see the median is very close (140 mg/week) to Danny’s touted starting dosage of 150 mg/week. This provider is not running his patients to fT levels of 30-50 or 50+ ng/dl but there are a good fraction running up to 30 ng/dl. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
How to Predict Estradiol and DHT at Different Testosterone Doses
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