High DHEAS/Low Cortisol

[Smith67]

DHEA-Sulfate
520.6 ug/dL Range 138-475 High

Cortisol AM
4.2 ug/dL Range 6.2-19.4 Low

The adrenals make both of these hormones so I don't see why there is such a discrepancy between the two. BTW im not supplementing with DHEA

Is there a way to naturally remedy this?

Could a lack of an enzyme be causing the DHEA to not convert Cortisol?

Im trying to avoid hydrocortisone shots

Any help is much appreciated

 

[Smith67]

Bump

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Influence of DHEA administration on 24-hour cortisol concentrations - PubMed

DHEA is marketed and readily available as a daily nutritional supplement to counteract the effects of aging. The effect of DHEA administration on 24-hour plasma cortisol profiles has not been investigated. In this single-blind placebo-controlled crossover study, the effect of DHEA administration...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Anonymon]

Influence of DHEA administration on 24-hour cortisol concentrations - PubMed

DHEA is marketed and readily available as a daily nutritional supplement to counteract the effects of aging. The effect of DHEA administration on 24-hour plasma cortisol profiles has not been investigated. In this single-blind placebo-controlled crossover study, the effect of DHEA administration...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Historically on some of my tests from last year, my DHEA Sulfate on 50mg-75mg of DHEA in the morning a day was 250 or 340 based on different tests, and my morning cortisol was 6-6.4, which is the bottom and below the range. When I dropped all DHEA, my last bloodtest had my DHEA sulfate at 94.3 (just under the 102.6 that’s the bottom of the range that goes to 416), and my morning cortisol was 10.4.

I’m always doing stuff to try to raise my cortisol, but across those different tests, that DHEA change was the main difference there between the numbers. Face was also less puffy, and dreams were more vivid and memorable. Gut slowed down a bit and mood was a little lower.

The morning Cortisol rise from a DHEA drop is in line with that study. My cortisol’s low enough that it is pretty significant, almost doubling I suppose.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Historically on some of my tests from last year, my DHEA Sulfate on 50mg-75mg of DHEA in the morning a day was 250 or 340 based on different tests, and my morning cortisol was 6-6.4, which is the bottom and below the range. When I dropped all DHEA, my last bloodtest had my DHEA sulfate at 94.3 (just under the 102.6 that’s the bottom of the range that goes to 416), and my morning cortisol was 10.4.

I’m always doing stuff to try to raise my cortisol, but across those different tests, that DHEA change was the main difference there between the numbers. Face was also less puffy, and dreams were more vivid and memorable. Gut slowed down a bit and mood was a little lower.

The morning Cortisol rise from a DHEA drop is in line with that study. My cortisol’s low enough that it is pretty significant, almost doubling I suppose.

Gut slowed and face was less puffy with or without the DHEA?

I recently came across a bovine adrenal cortex supplement from pure encapsulations. Ever tried that to raise cortisol? In theory pregnenolone could raise cortisol too. I'm curious about this because I have a feeling some men on TRT probably develop low cortisol eventually.

 

[Anonymon]

Gut slowed and face was less puffy with or without the DHEA?

I recently came across a bovine adrenal cortex supplement from pure encapsulations. Ever tried that to raise cortisol? In theory pregnenolone could raise cortisol too. I'm curious about this because I have a feeling some men on TRT probably develop low cortisol eventually.

That was without the DHEA.

I take 400mg of pregnenolone daily in the morning and it’s helped immensely with all my low cortisol symptoms. I don’t think I’ve tried that brand but I’ve tried other adrenal cortex brands before and that’s what lead me to taking my low cortisol more seriously as I felt better day 1 on that, then you get adapted to it fairly quickly. I’ve tried pretty much everything when it comes to cortisol. All the herbs, meds, basically all of it outside of slow release cortisol meds and some of the heavier hitting ones like prednisone. Pregnenolone at that dose gave me the most benefits with the least sides. Hydrocortisone helps but also has a lot of bad sides and preg gives me the benefits without the sides. Cortisone acetate was the best overall but hard to source.

Currently on the beginning of the second week of lowering my test dose by 30%ish. At least within the first week, I had symptoms of my cortisol being higher like when I take the meds, but we’ll see if that levels out, as typically I did better on more test. Test dose lower the adrenal gland response to CRH, but plenty of guys on TRT also have issues with higher cortisol, like potentially Nelson as I recall, so it’s pretty individual.

 

[Anonymon]

Gut slowed and face was less puffy with or without the DHEA?

I recently came across a bovine adrenal cortex supplement from pure encapsulations. Ever tried that to raise cortisol? In theory pregnenolone could raise cortisol too. I'm curious about this because I have a feeling some men on TRT probably develop low cortisol eventually.

Looking into the one you linked, I haven’t tried that one but I have many others. Admittedly I’ve never tried one that has both the cortex and whole adrenal due to adrenaline concerns, but have been pondering the theory that an epinephrine deficit can be core to some of these issues and were just stimulating our bodies to make up for it, so I ordered that one and will try it Wed morning.

 

[Dicky]

Cortisone acetate was the best overall but hard to source.

IIRC cortisone acetate is what @Hormetheus used to supplement his cortisol production. How did you end up getting ahold of the stuff?

 

[Anonymon]

IIRC cortisone acetate is what @Hormetheus used to supplement his cortisol production. How did you end up getting ahold of the stuff?

It is. I got mine from overseas. Source got shutdown though. Still have enough to hold me over at a micro dose for half of this year then I’m dry on it.

Horm actually came off everything after briefly experimenting with an MAO inhibitor and then stopping that too, staying on T4 at around 125mcg as I recall.

 

[Dicky]

It is. I got mine from overseas. Source got shutdown though. Still have enough to hold me over at a micro dose for half of this year then I’m dry on it.

Horm actually came off everything after briefly experimenting with an MAO inhibitor and then stopping that too, staying on T4 at around 125mcg as I recall.

Yes, his big revelation was something called semaglutide. BTW, I have been reading here and there that overseas authorities are doing more enforcements as of late. It seems the FDA is not the only organization clamping down on things. The nanny state is going global.

 

[Anonymon]

Yes, his big revelation was something called semaglutide. BTW, I have been reading here and there that overseas authorities are doing more enforcements as of late. It seems the FDA is not the only organization clamping down on things. The nanny state is going global.

I’ve got a lot of stuff overseas over the years from various places and what you said regarding that is correct. Still not that hard to get most things thankfully.

 

[Anonymon]

Gut slowed and face was less puffy with or without the DHEA?

I recently came across a bovine adrenal cortex supplement from pure encapsulations. Ever tried that to raise cortisol? In theory pregnenolone could raise cortisol too. I'm curious about this because I have a feeling some men on TRT probably develop low cortisol eventually.

Tried out that Adrenal supplement for 4 days. My doc also apparently sells it. Did work amazingly well compared to other things I’ve tried, including hydrocortisone, and is probably the best I have ever tried by a wide margin. Just took the normal dose of two caps in the morning. The fact that I react very differently to the whole glandular than to just the cortex and hydrocortisone does suggest that it’s probably not the cortisol in there, if any, that’s helping. It’s more likely some of the other things in there like dopamine and norepinephrine and epinephrine and such. Glycogen retention shot way up and was only limited by the T3 I’m taking, I could sweat progressively well as time went on, and various other things that happen to me when things are going better for me. Not being able to sweat really sucks. Retaining water like a mofo, which in my case is more normal to who I am. I also have a theory that adrenal cortex extracts contain something that converts cortisone to cortisol, which is why people adapt to them so quickly, whereas I never really adapt to things like hydrocortisone at lower doses (5mg).

In line with that theory, ordered some Selegiline to try in micro dose since it’s an MAO-B inhibitor that’d help with some of that. It’s possible that people like me that have documented low cortisol have low cortisol mechanistically from other things, which is why many have trouble when trying to dose with hydrocortisone, whereas getting it through other means like cortisone acetate and pregnenolone help more because the ‘release’ of cortisol and activation of it probably triggers the body to release and do other things alongside of it to support it. If I just take hydrocortisone I feel very dopamine depleted and generally it’s not as helpful as other things and is mostly negative sides I don’t like.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Sounds promising for you. I also have really been enjoying the adrenal from Pure as well. I actually feel like this might be my missing piece of the puzzle minus the libido, but who knows, that may reappear in time.

Are you saying that this adrenal is causing you to retain water? Like intramuscular or subq?

 

[Anonymon]

Are you saying that this adrenal is causing you to retain water? Like intramuscular or subq?

Both. That’s one issue a little more unique to me than other people. When my issues started, I stopped being able to retain water very well at all anywhere. Hair dries and falls out and if I eat things that raise my insulin a little more it visibly starts to shrivel (not just me thinking that, others have commented, if I do something that helps it by the next day people ask if I got a hair transplant or something, happens to body hair too), glycogen retention goes down tremendously, my skin gets dry everywhere, I get heat damage very easily on my skin, and things of that nature. More or less water does nothing, more or less electrolytes actually seems to make it worse after initially making a change because it seemingly uses up what water I have in me, etc. More prevalent in areas thyroid hormones seem to affect the most, like my face and hair and neck and muscles. Blood tests always show I’m a little dehydrated. Kidney tests are always perfect.

Hydrocortisone makes me retain water and gain fat like mad SubQ and I get less glycogen retention. If I drink or eat potassium on it, I rapidly shrivel and get dehydrated. Sodium actually does the same thing. Cortisone acetate was better and it was more a mix of both with most of it being positive not negative.

On this whole adrenal, water everywhere is going up, more so to be how I was when I was normal, for better and worse. My glycogen retention’s so artificially low sometimes, even when not on T3, that when I do something to help it like now, my muscles start spasming and inflating off and on here and there as the day goes on after I eat and I have to wear different clothes. People ask me if I started taking steroids.

Bile acids do that as well, but then things taper off rapidly. Most likely from it stimulating me from increasing T4 to T3 conversion before that tapers off because I can have the same experience when adding in T4 to the letter. T3 in instant forms like cytomel doesn’t do that, though sustained release ones do.

Adrenal in any form, and HC and CA, never did anything for my libido. More test does, and if I do that on more rhodiola, which is an MAO inhibitor in mild form among other things, it goes up. HCG helps as well, mostly when I make a dosing change to go up. Right now my dick works through stimulation but I have no libido or mental connection, but that’s because I just lowered my test dose. Usually on my current protocol I’d be fine there despite other sides.

 

[Gman86]

Both. That’s one issue a little more unique to me than other people. When my issues started, I stopped being able to retain water very well at all anywhere. Hair dries and falls out and if I eat things that raise my insulin a little more it visibly starts to shrivel (not just me thinking that, others have commented, if I do something that helps it by the next day people ask if I got a hair transplant or something, happens to body hair too), glycogen retention goes down tremendously, my skin gets dry everywhere, I get heat damage very easily on my skin, and things of that nature. More or less water does nothing, more or less electrolytes actually seems to make it worse after initially making a change because it seemingly uses up what water I have in me, etc. More prevalent in areas thyroid hormones seem to affect the most, like my face and hair and neck and muscles. Blood tests always show I’m a little dehydrated. Kidney tests are always perfect.

Hydrocortisone makes me retain water and gain fat like mad SubQ and I get less glycogen retention. If I drink or eat potassium on it, I rapidly shrivel and get dehydrated. Sodium actually does the same thing. Cortisone acetate was better and it was more a mix of both with most of it being positive not negative.

On this whole adrenal, water everywhere is going up, more so to be how I was when I was normal, for better and worse. My glycogen retention’s so artificially low sometimes, even when not on T3, that when I do something to help it like now, my muscles start spasming and inflating off and on here and there as the day goes on after I eat and I have to wear different clothes. People ask me if I started taking steroids.

Bile acids do that as well, but then things taper off rapidly. Most likely from it stimulating me from increasing T4 to T3 conversion before that tapers off because I can have the same experience when adding in T4 to the letter. T3 in instant forms like cytomel doesn’t do that, though sustained release ones do.

Adrenal in any form, and HC and CA, never did anything for my libido. More test does, and if I do that on more rhodiola, which is an MAO inhibitor in mild form among other things, it goes up. HCG helps as well, mostly when I make a dosing change to go up. Right now my dick works through stimulation but I have no libido or mental connection, but that’s because I just lowered my test dose. Usually on my current protocol I’d be fine there despite other sides.

So if u did well on pure encapsulations adrenal cortex supplement why did u stop taking it after 4 days?

 

[Anonymon]

So if u did well on pure encapsulations adrenal cortex supplement why did u stop taking it after 4 days?

Didn’t at all help my libido or dick so I want to test out my other theory first without confounding variables. Have PT-141 and Selegiline coming and don’t want to have to think about ‘was it the PT or Selgin that helped, or cortext building up, or what?’ Adrenal things also have a tendency to increase body fat in my case and if I can fix my issues without worrying about that I’d be happy. The only times I’ve ever even been able to put on fat over the years since I started all this was when messing with adrenal related things like cortex and HC and CA.

I’d also want to come down or off T3 if I can potentially make all this work, and doing that while increasing my cortisol’s a recipe for fat gain.

 

[Gman86]

Didn’t at all help my libido or dick so I want to test out my other theory first without confounding variables. Have PT-141 and Selegiline coming and don’t want to have to think about ‘was it the PT or Selgin that helped, or cortext building up, or what?’ Adrenal things also have a tendency to increase body fat in my case and if I can fix my issues without worrying about that I’d be happy. The only times I’ve ever even been able to put on fat over the years since I started all this was when messing with adrenal related things like cortex and HC and CA.

I’d also want to come down or off T3 if I can potentially make all this work, and doing that while increasing my cortisol’s a recipe for fat gain.

So when u said it worked amazingly well, what benefits did notice from taking it?

 

[ajax31]

Both. That’s one issue a little more unique to me than other people. When my issues started, I stopped being able to retain water very well at all anywhere. Hair dries and falls out and if I eat things that raise my insulin a little more it visibly starts to shrivel (not just me thinking that, others have commented, if I do something that helps it by the next day people ask if I got a hair transplant or something, happens to body hair too), glycogen retention goes down tremendously, my skin gets dry everywhere, I get heat damage very easily on my skin, and things of that nature. More or less water does nothing, more or less electrolytes actually seems to make it worse after initially making a change because it seemingly uses up what water I have in me, etc. More prevalent in areas thyroid hormones seem to affect the most, like my face and hair and neck and muscles. Blood tests always show I’m a little dehydrated. Kidney tests are always perfect.

Hydrocortisone makes me retain water and gain fat like mad SubQ and I get less glycogen retention. If I drink or eat potassium on it, I rapidly shrivel and get dehydrated. Sodium actually does the same thing. Cortisone acetate was better and it was more a mix of both with most of it being positive not negative.

On this whole adrenal, water everywhere is going up, more so to be how I was when I was normal, for better and worse. My glycogen retention’s so artificially low sometimes, even when not on T3, that when I do something to help it like now, my muscles start spasming and inflating off and on here and there as the day goes on after I eat and I have to wear different clothes. People ask me if I started taking steroids.

Bile acids do that as well, but then things taper off rapidly. Most likely from it stimulating me from increasing T4 to T3 conversion before that tapers off because I can have the same experience when adding in T4 to the letter. T3 in instant forms like cytomel doesn’t do that, though sustained release ones do.

Adrenal in any form, and HC and CA, never did anything for my libido. More test does, and if I do that on more rhodiola, which is an MAO inhibitor in mild form among other things, it goes up. HCG helps as well, mostly when I make a dosing change to go up. Right now my dick works through stimulation but I have no libido or mental connection, but that’s because I just lowered my test dose. Usually on my current protocol I’d be fine there despite other sides.

The adrenals secrete weak androgens, glucocorticoids (mostly cortisol) and mineralocorticoids (aldosterone).

Hydrocortisone probably has somewhat of a mineralocorticoid effect if taken at high doses.

It’s mostly aldosterone that’s going to increase water retention by increasing the sodium to potassium ratio. Florinef is known to cause hypokalemia or low potassium and sodium retention.

My guess is that this whole adrenal cortex you’re taking has more of a balanced combination of glucocorticoids and mineralocorticoids than something like hydrocortisone or cortisone acetate.

It’s baffling how the adrenal function becomes disordered in the first place and how to get back to a more normal state. Taking lifelong doses of hydrocortisone, cortisone acetate, Florinef or even adrenal cortex supplements isn’t the answer.

A while back @Hormetheus posted about his experience weaning off of cortisone acetate after years, and how his adrenal function became normal afterwards.

 

[Anonymon]

The adrenals secrete weak androgens, glucocorticoids (mostly cortisol) and mineralocorticoids (aldosterone).

Hydrocortisone probably has somewhat of a mineralocorticoid effect if taken at high doses.

It’s mostly aldosterone that’s going to increase water retention by increasing the sodium to potassium ratio. Florinef is known to cause hypokalemia or low potassium and sodium retention.

My guess is that this whole adrenal cortex you’re taking has more of a balanced combination of glucocorticoids and mineralocorticoids than something like hydrocortisone or cortisone acetate.

It’s baffling how the adrenal function becomes disordered in the first place and how to get back to a more normal state. Taking lifelong doses of hydrocortisone, cortisone acetate, Florinef or even adrenal cortex supplements isn’t the answer.

A while back @Hormetheus posted about his experience weaning off of cortisone acetate after years, and how his adrenal function became normal afterwards.

In my case that’s not what’s going on at all. I have Fludrocortisone (Florinef) and it actually massively dehydrates me and makes things worse, especially if I have anything with potassium in it. If I drink potassium drinks I straight up cramp on the spot. Be nice if having more sodium helped but it doesn’t do anything in that context for me. There’s a lot more made in the adrenal glands than you’re probably aware of, including epinephrine. That’s one of the reasons they have the cortex extract vs the whole glandular, since most people want to avoid things like epinephrine.

I’ve done pretty extensive replacement over periods of time with hydrocortisone, cortisone acetate, and fludrocortisone, as well as adrenal cortex extracts and other things. It’s not the cortisol in there I’m responding to. Or aldosterone.

Horm did the hormone dance for a bit and then realized he was just burnt out from college after trying an MAO inhibitor, then eventually tried Wellbutrin and instead tried doing things to counter a cut he did years ago and came off everything. Cortisone Acetate is better than hydrocortisone at seemingly all things and it’d be nice if they prescribed it more for people with Addison’s.

 

[Anonymon]

So when u said it worked amazingly well, what benefits did notice from taking it?

Glycogen retention went way up despite all the T3 I’m on, mind was generally better and faster, senses deeper and general dopamine things better, could sweat like a normal person in a way that went up day over day, energy was better. Gained about 15lbs of water over 2 days, in a good way mostly in my case in my muscles despite all the T3 fighting that. Endlessly thirsty though and skin dried out in some places because it seems like my body’s moving water to where it needs to be but has a hard time storing enough water in other areas to keep up with that since I was already dehydrated, if that makes sense. I can visibly see it happening too after I eat sometimes, like my chest drying out as it’s also pumping up and spasming from all the glycogen going into it. Not while I’m working out or anything, just me sitting there eating, then happening around the time you’d expect the insulin to go up, which varies by meal. I realize that’s weird but that’s what happens in my case. If I wasn’t on the T3, I’d probably be completely filled out by now with a dick to be feared.

It’s not the cortisol or aldosterone in there that’s doing anything for me though, so I’m still coming off to experiment with that more directly. If someone is having issues they think are cortisol related, the whole glandular is seemingly the superior option because it seems like most people with low cortisol have it secondary to other things and the glandular also helps with that secondary level, or seems to in my case. If you have low cortisol from something like Addison’s, cortex in general isn’t going to be enough for you.