Hi all, a brief introduction, curious opinions please

[Stevolives]

Good morning everyone, I am new here and wanted to make my first post introduction. I am 55 years old and have lifted weights 7 times per week (with rare exceptions) for 40 years. I am 5'8 155 pounds. 10 years ago I was around 205 and my marriage fell apart. I lost 50 pounds and now hover 150-160 pounds.. I have noticed the last 5 years my strength continues to decline in spite of non stop weightlifting. I have always been curious about TRT and finally feel my age warrants investigating. I approached my primary care doc about and he seemed skeptical. He had me do blood work for testosterone and it came back 388 2 months ago. He said that was within normal. I still persisted and he said ok well you took that test late afternoon take another one at 8 am, which I did. That one came back 413, end of discussion, lol. The topic was never broached again. I now have signed up with a TRT place locally here to see what they say. My biggest fear is gyno and/or losing (more) hair. Curious if those numbers look like should be ok or I should go through with the TRT place thing. I need to take a test for them. In my eyes, my symptoms are, I am tired, sarcopenia is coming, my arms no matter how much I lift are shrinking, sleep is challenged, even walking feels different now at office for example, libido is mehh, so so at best. I am reading the range for age 55 year old male in decent shape is 300-1000, that is quite a large range! Anyway, hope I haven't broken any protocols with this post but just curious opinions and thanks! looks like a great forum to be a part of! TY

as a side, I have read about another firm that does not prescribe testosterone but instead give you a drug/pill Enclomiphene that one of the side effects is raised testosterone. I kind of wish he would prescribe it to me then again what he is saying is that I basically do not have testosterone low enough to treat so he isn't willing to investigate or treat...

 

[Vince]

Good morning everyone, I am new here and wanted to make my first post introduction. I am 55 years old and have lifted weights 7 times per week (with rare exceptions) for 40 years. I am 5'8 155 pounds. 10 years ago I was around 205 and my marriage fell apart. I lost 50 pounds and now hover 150-160 pounds.. I have noticed the last 5 years my strength continues to decline in spite of non stop weightlifting. I have always been curious about TRT and finally feel my age warrants investigating. I approached my primary care doc about and he seemed skeptical. He had me do blood work for testosterone and it came back 388 2 months ago. He said that was within normal. I still persisted and he said ok well you took that test late afternoon take another one at 8 am, which I did. That one came back 413, end of discussion, lol. The topic was never broached again. I now have signed up with a TRT place locally here to see what they say. My biggest fear is gyno and/or losing (more) hair. Curious if those numbers look like should be ok or I should go through with the TRT place thing. I need to take a test for them. In my eyes, my symptoms are, I am tired, sarcopenia is coming, my arms no matter how much I lift are shrinking, sleep is challenged, even walking feels different now at office for example, libido is mehh, so so at best. I am reading the range for age 55 year old male in decent shape is 300-1000, that is quite a large range! Anyway, hope I haven't broken any protocols with this post but just curious opinions and thanks! looks like a great forum to be a part of! TY

as a side, I have read about another firm that does not prescribe testosterone but instead give you a drug/pill Enclomiphene that one of the side effects is raised testosterone. I kind of wish he would prescribe it to me then again what he is saying is that I basically do not have testosterone low enough to treat so he isn't willing to investigate or treat...

I would consider defy medical. That's who I go through. Their prices are reasonable. I've been with them for almost 10 years now. When you get your labs please post them.

Get Started - Defy Medical

www.defymedical.com

 

[Stevolives]

Thank you!

 

[Systemlord]

I approached my primary care doc about and he seemed skeptical. He had me do blood work for testosterone and it came back 388 2 months ago. He said that was within normal. I still persisted and he said ok well you took that test late afternoon take another one at 8 am, which I did. That one came back 413, end of discussion, lol.

Your testosterone levels are in a range that puts you at risk for potential health problems.

Your primary care doctor is operating outside of his scope of medicine. Total testosterone doesn’t define testosterone deficiency, the free testosterone is what matters. SHBG levels influence the total testosterone, so higher SHBG levels means higher total testosterone levels, inflating the total testosterone and making your situation look better than it really is.

Mainstream medicine doctors often fail to properly diagnose and treat testosterone deficiency in men. It’s wise for men seek treatment for low testosterone, privately, cash only.

Testosterone Level: How Low is Too Low? Health Consequences of Low Testosterone

I was able to summarize all available studies on testosterone blood levels and how they are linked to several health issues. I will add references soon. Low Blood Levels of Testosterone and Associated Risks: < 450 ng/dl (15.3 nmol/l) - Risk of metabolic syndrome Reference: Dhindsa, S...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Systemlord]

My biggest fear is gyno and/or losing (more) hair. Curious if those numbers look like should be ok or I should go through with the TRT place thing.

If you never had gyno when you were younger, I wouldn’t worry about it. Your nipples might burn and become sensitive when you first start TRT, but this will pass as your body adapts.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Good morning everyone, I am new here and wanted to make my first post introduction. I am 55 years old and have lifted weights 7 times per week (with rare exceptions) for 40 years. I am 5'8 155 pounds. 10 years ago I was around 205 and my marriage fell apart. I lost 50 pounds and now hover 150-160 pounds.. I have noticed the last 5 years my strength continues to decline in spite of non stop weightlifting. I have always been curious about TRT and finally feel my age warrants investigating. I approached my primary care doc about and he seemed skeptical. He had me do blood work for testosterone and it came back 388 2 months ago. He said that was within normal. I still persisted and he said ok well you took that test late afternoon take another one at 8 am, which I did. That one came back 413, end of discussion, lol. The topic was never broached again. I now have signed up with a TRT place locally here to see what they say. My biggest fear is gyno and/or losing (more) hair. Curious if those numbers look like should be ok or I should go through with the TRT place thing. I need to take a test for them. In my eyes, my symptoms are, I am tired, sarcopenia is coming, my arms no matter how much I lift are shrinking, sleep is challenged, even walking feels different now at office for example, libido is mehh, so so at best. I am reading the range for age 55 year old male in decent shape is 300-1000, that is quite a large range! Anyway, hope I haven't broken any protocols with this post but just curious opinions and thanks! looks like a great forum to be a part of! TY

as a side, I have read about another firm that does not prescribe testosterone but instead give you a drug/pill Enclomiphene that one of the side effects is raised testosterone. I kind of wish he would prescribe it to me then again what he is saying is that I basically do not have testosterone low enough to treat so he isn't willing to investigate or treat...

Welcome to the forum. A lot to unpack here but here are some thoughts.

- I agree with Vince that going with a clinic like Defy that specializes in hormones is the way to go as far as clinicians are concerned
- If I had it to do over again I would certainly start with something like clomid or enclomiphene
- The biggest risk of TRT, by far, from what I have seen in over 10 years observing this space, is decreased erectile function that does not resolve, even if you stop TRT. Gyno, while a problem for some, is at least resolvable by surgery, however the erection issues are an ongoing problem for those that develop that issue, so if your erections are good, I personally would not risk it, at least not to start with, given that there are other options for strength/Athletics.
- Regarding strength, you didn't say anything about your lifting approach or diet. IMO, 7 days per week is way too much and could lead to systemic over-training, especially if you are going to failure on any of your sets, which would make it even worse. That alone, independent of hormones could fully explain your decline, as could diet if you are not keeping your body in a state of abundance.
- Further, as you age (I'm 63 and have been lifting for 45 years) you are going to need to put much more effort into stretching, agility, explosiveness, sprinting, gymnastics-type work, conditioning and injury rehab, so you want an excess of recovery ability and nutrients to be able to handle all of that.
- For athletics, once you have diet and (sustainable) training in place, if I had it to do over again, I would start with something in the growth hormone family (likely MGF1-29/Ipamorelin secretagogues) and possibly an intermittent low-dose anabolic like oxandrolone (which Defy can prescribe) several times per week. That should be much lower risk (and much simpler to dial in) than full-blown TRT for both erections and gyno.
- There are other things that could be contributing to the symptoms you're experiencing such as thyroid issues or an unresolved low-level infection, so a work-up from a good holistic doc who can check such things without being constrined by maintream thinking may make sense. I don't follow the thyroid space closely, but as far as I know, it is low-risk to experiment with a low dose of supplementation which a good clinic should be able to help you with.
- Nutrient deficiencies could also explain your symptoms. I recommend people start with the book The Perfect Health Diet, by Paul Jaminet for a baseline of nutrient recommendations, but lifelong learning is in your future on all these topics if you want to stay healthy. Ok, I hope that helps.

 

[Stevolives]

Good morning, appreciate the thoughtful post!
Will check out Defy but wish primary doc would discuss enclomiphene/clomid with me. I am talking with Henrymeds currently.
The biggest risk of TRT
yes luckily this is not at all a concern currently, would not want to experience this side effect as it sounds rough
Regarding strength
Totally hear you on the 7 day overtraining thing but I have adapted lifting style over the years. Most of those days are 1 body part or light type workouts, I do mostly what I call 'feels sets,' weights are drastically reduced and I quit the set in advance of failure. Lifting to me is more therapeutic. This also came to be because of my inguinal hernia. I had it surgically repaired in April. It is 'ok.' But I am still being so very careful as I took 4 full weeks away from the gym right after and very gradually began doing light curls and super low impact lifting. Will add more to post after work. Regarding diet, I've basically been a permacutter/faster since my marriage dissolved.
this sounds really good:
start with something in the growth hormone family (likely MGF1-29/Ipamorelin secretagogues) and possibly an intermittent low-dose anabolic like oxandrolone (which Defy can prescribe) several times per week. That should be much lower risk (and much simpler to dial in) than full-blown TRT for both erections and gyno.
I wouldn't really know how to approach these items with a provider.
Will check out:
The Perfect Health Diet, by Paul Jaminet for a baseline of nutrient recommendations
I am likely somewhat malnourished, but cut, I found as the years went by we wear extra weight different and it doesn't look as good as when 30. Like I told my Dad the other day, he's 84, I weigh the same as I weighed when I was 35, but it doesn't look 35! his response still makes me laugh- 'things shift.'

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Good morning, appreciate the thoughtful post!
Will check out Defy but wish primary doc would discuss enclomiphene/clomid with me. I am talking with Henrymeds currently.
The biggest risk of TRT
yes luckily this is not at all a concern currently, would not want to experience this side effect as it sounds rough
Regarding strength
Totally hear you on the 7 day overtraining thing but I have adapted lifting style over the years. Most of those days are 1 body part or light type workouts, I do mostly what I call 'feels sets,' weights are drastically reduced and I quit the set in advance of failure. Lifting to me is more therapeutic. This also came to be because of my inguinal hernia. I had it surgically repaired in April. It is 'ok.' But I am still being so very careful as I took 4 full weeks away from the gym right after and very gradually began doing light curls and super low impact lifting. Will add more to post after work. Regarding diet, I've basically been a permacutter/faster since my marriage dissolved.
this sounds really good:
start with something in the growth hormone family (likely MGF1-29/Ipamorelin secretagogues) and possibly an intermittent low-dose anabolic like oxandrolone (which Defy can prescribe) several times per week. That should be much lower risk (and much simpler to dial in) than full-blown TRT for both erections and gyno.
I wouldn't really know how to approach these items with a provider.
Will check out:
The Perfect Health Diet, by Paul Jaminet for a baseline of nutrient recommendations
I am likely somewhat malnourished, but cut, I found as the years went by we wear extra weight different and it doesn't look as good as when 30. Like I told my Dad the other day, he's 84, I weigh the same as I weighed when I was 35, but it doesn't look 35! his response still makes me laugh- 'things shift.'

The thing that jumps out to me is "permacutting". This could explain every single one of your symptoms including low T, and it has likely slowed your metabolism down. Until you get your body into a state of abundance you won't know what (if anything) else needs to be addressed or how to do it. I am very much pro-TRT, but as with any other tool, only when the necessary precursors are in place. Permacutting sounds like the calorie restriction cult of years ago where people ended up with symptoms like yours or worse. The people who do well with fasting seem to do it intermittently while having a fairly high calorie intake during non-fasting times. Long-term low-calorie is basically sending the message to your body that you are in a permanent famine and/or that you are not good at hunting and gathering. It therefore shuts down all non-essential systems. This would be a problem even on TRT and TRT could in fact make it worse. It sounds like priority one is to do a "reverse diet" where you very gradually raise your calories (say by no more than 100 cals per week) so that your metabolic rate rises and you gradually get into a state of abundance. The additional cals could come from quality animal protein (non chicken), starches like white rice and potatoes (not wheat) but no seed oils or high simple-sugar foods or processed foods. You may have to up your salt intake as well. Until you get your fueling to a healthy state, nothing else is likely to work correctly. If you want to be a high-performance machine (think Top Fuel) you need to eat like a high-performance machine.

Also, regarding fat distribution/body comp, permacutting is viewed as a stress by the body and as such can raise cortisol in many people which in turn promotes belly fat retention and other bad stuff. So again, under-fueling is a hornet's-nest of bad stuff that you need to address before anything else.

 

[Belekas]

You can't out train a bad diet and it will eventually catch up with you. Use an app like Chronometer, reverse engineer your diet, and input all your daily food and check if you meet the required amounts of minerals and vitamins. Then training 7 days per week is def not optimal and should incorporate more rest days. By now we still have no idea what your diet is, but its been asked before and seems you don't want to talk about it, which is fine but to be fair, most when asked are saying they eat healthy, when in reallity not many has any idea what actually is eating healthy for them. Being lean, mean, killing machine, doesn't say anything about your diet, other then that person is putting in work and not overeating. Usually people are overworked and underfed, at least where I come from. All great advice above from guys that know what they are talking about. Good luck.

 

[Stevolives]

Good morning, well, the diet sucks, basic low cal but whatever I want. I want to get the Chronometer and load everything I eat for a week and see what it says. Sage, detailed advice on here that I appreciate. For the last 10 years I have been in survival mode due to a plethora of adult child and relationship problems. Things seem to be stabilizing though hence my desire to take a peek at my self, work on myself etc. Lifting weights is the only thing that has kept me from falling. Ya nailed it here:
putting in work and not overeating. Usually people are overworked and underfed
This also
The additional cals could come from quality animal protein (non chicken), starches like white rice and potatoes (not wheat) but no seed oils or high simple-sugar foods or processed foods. You may have to up your salt intake as well.
Excellent. I will begin to increase calories, I kind of think 160 may be a good weight for me. I do enjoy a big cheat meal at least once a week. There is a seafood place I enjoy.
I will take my test test soon and see what the crew at the TRT clinic has to say but I feel that you guys are onto something when if I got my lifestyle more in order, my T might raise simply by virtue of that so I am leery to go in and start blasting TRT for reasons mentioned here. I found a site when googled re: this comment but have no clue how to administer use these things.
MGF1-29/Ipamorelin secretagogues
I've been a mess the past however many years and being lean and 'in shape' was always one area of my life I CAN control so I seized it. Look good per se, but maybe not so much internally.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Another caution about TRT that I forgot in my initial response is that for some people it can cause Resting Heart Rate to rise significantly for no apparent reason and without a root-cause way to resolve. That happened to me and I've seen it reported by numerous others. That is probably not a good thing although not a reason not to do TRT if other reasons dictate it.

 

[Systemlord]

I got lucky, my hematocrit pre-TRT was 45%, hemoglobin 15, on TRT hematocrit is 55%, a 10 point increase (ove-responder) and hemoglobin is 19.2 and blood pressure is 122/71, all accomplished with NO blood pressure medicines!

My pre-treatment blood pressure was 128/100+ 130 bpm.

I didn't get everything under control until I got my diet dialed in.

 

[Stevolives]

Good morning everyone, well it looks as though my TYT aspirations have come to an end at this point. So as I mentioned before I tested at 388 later in day couple months ago, primary doc wanted one in the morning which I did and came back 413 and they pretty much dismissed my requests to start. I began with a TRT outfit and took a test for them. They wanted it between 7 and 9am. I got there at 9 and had to wait 2 hours for test. Anyway, this one came back 500 so I am kind of baffled by the spike. I had my zoom consult with the provider and she said based on that I was not eligible which is disappointing I suppose but also kind of good in the respect that supposedly it is at an OK level..... I haven't had a 500 level in years but it is what it is. She suggested trying again in a few months or later.

 

[Systemlord]

Total testosterone doesn't define testosterone deficiency, the free testosterone is where the rubber meets the road! Low normal free testosterone according to experts is a sign of hypogonadism.

Good luck getting a mainstream medical doctor to know about it. No training, no education in medical school with regards to sex hormones and uphill battle you face.

It's advised you seek treatment, if free testosterone is bottomed out through a private cash only clinic because insurance based care is going to be more restrictive in dishing out services.

Think of Las Vegas, the casinos rake in rivers of money and trickle out pennies. Insurance companies are no different.

 

[Systemlord]

Anyway, this one came back 500 so I am kind of baffled by the spike.

A natural daily fluctuation, perfectly normal and to be expected. Biology does not produce static unchanging hormone levels, variability is the name of the game when it comes to biology.

 

[jayt]

Good morning everyone, I am new here and wanted to make my first post introduction. I am 55 years old and have lifted weights 7 times per week (with rare exceptions) for 40 years. I am 5'8 155 pounds. 10 years ago I was around 205 and my marriage fell apart. I lost 50 pounds and now hover 150-160 pounds.. I have noticed the last 5 years my strength continues to decline in spite of non stop weightlifting. I have always been curious about TRT and finally feel my age warrants investigating. I approached my primary care doc about and he seemed skeptical. He had me do blood work for testosterone and it came back 388 2 months ago. He said that was within normal. I still persisted and he said ok well you took that test late afternoon take another one at 8 am, which I did. That one came back 413, end of discussion, lol. The topic was never broached again. I now have signed up with a TRT place locally here to see what they say. My biggest fear is gyno and/or losing (more) hair. Curious if those numbers look like should be ok or I should go through with the TRT place thing. I need to take a test for them. In my eyes, my symptoms are, I am tired, sarcopenia is coming, my arms no matter how much I lift are shrinking, sleep is challenged, even walking feels different now at office for example, libido is mehh, so so at best. I am reading the range for age 55 year old male in decent shape is 300-1000, that is quite a large range! Anyway, hope I haven't broken any protocols with this post but just curious opinions and thanks! looks like a great forum to be a part of! TY

as a side, I have read about another firm that does not prescribe testosterone but instead give you a drug/pill Enclomiphene that one of the side effects is raised testosterone. I kind of wish he would prescribe it to me then again what he is saying is that I basically do not have testosterone low enough to treat so he isn't willing to investigate or treat...

I would suggest you go to a Urologist. I am 74, have been on TRT for 15 years all monitored by my urologist. My T is around 1050. I have great sex, and workout 6 days a week and continue to maintain and even build muscle mass. Get on TRT and add Black Maca, Ashwanga, Red Ginseng and Zinc to your daily supplements. When you workout do a preworkout drink of BCAAs, NitricOxide, Lions Mane and Deer Antler. You will be back quick.

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Good morning everyone, I am new here and wanted to make my first post introduction. I am 55 years old and have lifted weights 7 times per week (with rare exceptions) for 40 years. I am 5'8 155 pounds. 10 years ago I was around 205 and my marriage fell apart. I lost 50 pounds and now hover 150-160 pounds.. I have noticed the last 5 years my strength continues to decline in spite of non stop weightlifting.

It does sound like you are quite active, which is great. It is safe to assume you are not lifting heavy if you are working out seven days a week at age 55 and are 5'8", 155 lbs. I don't know anyone that would endorse a 7-day week weightlifting schedule at age 55. How did you lose the weight? If it was keto, then check for hypothyroidism. Eat more, lift heavier, less often--my opinion. Of course there are plenty of docs that treat symptoms, not T levels, so I assume your issue is about getting insurance coverage for T-optimization. I'd go private pay and keep the insurance company out of your life.

 

[jayt]

It does sound like you are quire active, which is great. It is safe to assume you are not lifting heavy if you are working out seven days a week at age 55 and are 5'8", 155 lbs. I don't know anyone that would endorse a 7-day week weightlifting schedule at age 55. How did you lose the weight? If it was keto, then check for hypothyroidism. Eat more, lift heavier, less often--my opinion. Of course there are plenty of docs that treat symptoms, not T levels, so I assume your issue is about getting insurance coverage for T-optimization. I'd go private pay and keep the insurance company out of your life.

if you have decent health insurance, using it for TRT will save you money. I will share my experience. I go to my urologist, office visit a $20 copay. all blood tests covered at no cost. He prescribes my TRT, I use Cyponate, injections, 1.0 ml a week. My health insurance covers T at 0 copay. if you go private you will be paying $250+ per month or more. If you do not have a decent drug plan coverage use GoodRX to cover your medication... T Cyponate with GoodRx is about $60 per 3 months. Google GoodRx and join on line.

 

[Stevolives]

It does sound like you are quite active, which is great. It is safe to assume you are not lifting heavy if you are working out seven days a week at age 55 and are 5'8", 155 lbs. I don't know anyone that would endorse a 7-day week weightlifting schedule at age 55. How did you lose the weight? If it was keto, then check for hypothyroidism. Eat more, lift heavier, less often--my opinion. Of course there are plenty of docs that treat symptoms, not T levels, so I assume your issue is about getting insurance coverage for T-optimization. I'd go private pay and keep the insurance company out of your life.

I don't know anyone that would endorse a 7-day week weightlifting schedule at age 55. How did you lose the weight? If it was keto, then check for hypothyroidism. Eat more, lift heavier, less often--my opinion.

I like this alot. Well the weight loss honestly came pretty easy once I quit eating like an animal. Example, a large pizza and 12 pack of beer for dinner, really not good. I ate and drank whatever I wanted to my hearts desire, mexican food chinese food, honestly quite gluttonous. I think getting fat was part of the deconstruction of my marriage as well because no partner deserves their spouse getting so big. Once I started eating normal portions it fell off. Think stuff like spaghetti and meat sauce with zuchini spiraled spaghetti... Agree on the weights, alot of my workouts are basically feels sets and purely therapeutic, I use a too light too heavy type thing where I will lift pretty light sets of an exercise, a heavy one or 2 then light. The last few sets of all exercises I do ultra strict slow form really squeezing the muscle and long negative, but light. The hernia repair surgery thing really knocked me back poundage wise and I am super careful regarding it. Interestingly, my calves keep growing as I love pounding them because my hernia and back problems from squatting crazy in high school prevent me from hitting quads very hard. I want to try getting into the bulgarian squat, one leg deal if I could learn how to do it it seems there is something there regarding a person with back issues trying to maintain quad size.

 

[Stevolives]

if you have decent health insurance, using it for TRT will save you money. I will share my experience. I go to my urologist, office visit a $20 copay. all blood tests covered at no cost. He prescribes my TRT, I use Cyponate, injections, 1.0 ml a week. My health insurance covers T at 0 copay. if you go private you will be paying $250+ per month or more. If you do not have a decent drug plan coverage use GoodRX to cover your medication... T Cyponate with GoodRx is about $60 per 3 months. Google GoodRx and join on line.

Thank you. Yes I tried this first and primary doc scoffed at it, said I wasn't a candidate so went with the quasi online TRT company, $129 per month, am sure well known here but then they said no too, try back in a few months maybe. It does make sense though that 2, 3 or 4 tests should be taken to make sure no outlier test kinda