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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Here's a scary thought: Long term LH suppression on TRT- What are the effects?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbsoluteZ3R0" data-source="post: 100825" data-attributes="member: 15174"><p>I am aware that just because something has not been studied does not mean that it isn't true, but I have not seen these anecdotal accounts either (although I'm sure they exist, as they do for about anything you can imagine). The HCG doses prescribed by clinicians have a relatively low physiological effect compared to the amount of LH a healthy body produces naturally, so it doesn't make sense that receptor down-regulation would occur unless high doses were taken. I remember Dr Saya's small study in which 500 iu of HCG taken twice weekly roughly had the effect of LH levels around 2miu/mL, which are borderline below range. LH receptor down-regulation makes more sense in the context of drugs like clomid, which shoot LH well over range for most men, and of course gnrh agonists which are intentionally used to shutdown gnrh receptors. Again, LH is not the only hormone that acts on the testes, so even with an adequate dose of HCG, you are likely to experience testicular atrophy over time unless the stimulating effects of FSH are also replicated. </p><p></p><p>Ironically, androgen usage up-regulates androgen receptor density, so obviously we can't blame AR down-regulation either. The problem with this sort of theory-crafting without evidence is that it leads to unneeded hysteria. Guys who've been doing fine might become unnecessarily concerned that they've made a mistake committing to trt, and guys who've been doing not so fine may be inclined to blame their trt without investigating other avenues. I'm sure you would agree that nothing in this post was meant to intentionally alarm anyone, but it could certainly have that effect, and unnecessarily so. While the idea that all the guys who feel great are out and about loving life and too busy to visit the forums might seem a bit alienating to those who are struggling, there may be some truth to that thought. This forum really only has appeal to three demographics: 1) People who need help, 2) people who are passionate about the subject and love the science of trt, or enjoy discussion in general 3) people who enjoy using their knowledge/experience to help others, or fall into some combination of the three categories. Beyond that, it's really easy to forget about this site and move on with life, especially if you're feeling pretty good. Of course, I have no evidence for these statements either, but it is something to consider.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbsoluteZ3R0, post: 100825, member: 15174"] I am aware that just because something has not been studied does not mean that it isn't true, but I have not seen these anecdotal accounts either (although I'm sure they exist, as they do for about anything you can imagine). The HCG doses prescribed by clinicians have a relatively low physiological effect compared to the amount of LH a healthy body produces naturally, so it doesn't make sense that receptor down-regulation would occur unless high doses were taken. I remember Dr Saya's small study in which 500 iu of HCG taken twice weekly roughly had the effect of LH levels around 2miu/mL, which are borderline below range. LH receptor down-regulation makes more sense in the context of drugs like clomid, which shoot LH well over range for most men, and of course gnrh agonists which are intentionally used to shutdown gnrh receptors. Again, LH is not the only hormone that acts on the testes, so even with an adequate dose of HCG, you are likely to experience testicular atrophy over time unless the stimulating effects of FSH are also replicated. Ironically, androgen usage up-regulates androgen receptor density, so obviously we can't blame AR down-regulation either. The problem with this sort of theory-crafting without evidence is that it leads to unneeded hysteria. Guys who've been doing fine might become unnecessarily concerned that they've made a mistake committing to trt, and guys who've been doing not so fine may be inclined to blame their trt without investigating other avenues. I'm sure you would agree that nothing in this post was meant to intentionally alarm anyone, but it could certainly have that effect, and unnecessarily so. While the idea that all the guys who feel great are out and about loving life and too busy to visit the forums might seem a bit alienating to those who are struggling, there may be some truth to that thought. This forum really only has appeal to three demographics: 1) People who need help, 2) people who are passionate about the subject and love the science of trt, or enjoy discussion in general 3) people who enjoy using their knowledge/experience to help others, or fall into some combination of the three categories. Beyond that, it's really easy to forget about this site and move on with life, especially if you're feeling pretty good. Of course, I have no evidence for these statements either, but it is something to consider. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Here's a scary thought: Long term LH suppression on TRT- What are the effects?
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