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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
HCG monotherapy: Good first option for a Secondary case?
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<blockquote data-quote="Specialk" data-source="post: 38679" data-attributes="member: 13304"><p>Hey Guys,</p><p></p><p>New here, but not new to TRT. I have to make a decision and I honestly don't know what to do.</p><p></p><p>Ok, history, former competitive bodybuilder / power lifter who definitely took too much in his 20's (heck any of you old time body builders remember Zack's gym on the east coast??-- before steroids were illegal, you could buy them mail order legally!)...</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I probably only did 10+ cycles my entire life, never had an issue coming off, didn't even know what PCT was back then (1980's)... Life moved on, I always lifted (still do) but had some very serious stress when I was about 35 yrs old (about 20 yrs ago) before than felt great, was big and strong and happy as a clam. But after the big time stress, I got depressed, not medicated, just normal human condition after/during stress... a buddy of mine was on TRT back then and suggested I try one of his gel packs... so I did and I felt like a million bucks in short order.</p><p></p><p>So I found a TRT doc and while they did all the testing, pituitary was ok, hypothalamus was ok, even my nards were ok, yet my total and free T was low... 320+- (I can't remember) so they put me on TRT and I have been on it for all this time... Almost 2 decades. </p><p></p><p>I had some hard core stress again (hey I'm blessed only two times in 51 years!)...but I guess my hormones take the brunt of stress, because I got hypER-thyroid (not hyp-O)... it was the most horrible experience I've even been through as I am a high adrenaline guy to begin with, I went to and endo and he said hyp-ER-thyroid makes you 10 times more sensitive to adrenaline, so it was like an anxiety attack on steroids, continually, until they got me on beta blockers (at the hospital... I tried to tuff it out on my own and wound up in the hospital, shaking violently, had lost 30 lbs in 2 weeks....etc.)</p><p></p><p>The endo said I didn't have Hashimoto's or Graves, just stress related inflammation of my thyroid, it ended, never came back and I've been good for almost 3 years with no re-occurance.</p><p></p><p>The endo also wanted to address my TRT since I was there (He's a cool guy) and after running a bunch of tests, he told me there is nothing wrong with my system and I should take Clomid to get everything up and running again.</p><p></p><p>So I was supposed to take 50mg daily and I could not handle it... I was light headed, sad - weepy...etc.. I have a family and can't be walking around feeling sorry for myself all day every day. So I went to 25mg daily and it was tolerable but I got tested and my Total T level was only 450 (I don't remember ng/dl, or pg/ml ) so I was not feeling like it was worth the side effects.</p><p></p><p>So I thought, well, if everything works, why not just suck it up and see if your body can fix itself. So I went off TRT completely for over a year... my labs were worse... 325+- with free T basically in the right proportion, E2 all in right proportions...</p><p></p><p>So I went back to my TRT doc (a friend of mine) and told him I wanted to try Dr. Schully's (sp?) protocol, but since I am real sensitive to all drugs, I went on 1000 iu HCG EOD for 10 shots while simultaneously taking 20mg/day Tamoxifen ( Nolvadex) and continued the Tamoxifen for an additional 2 weeks after the shots were done.</p><p></p><p>I've done the protocol twice and my labs just came in at 324 Total T, 4.2 Free T and I didn't need the tests as I knew I felt crummy.. However while on HCG I felt fantastic, even my family was excited for me.</p><p></p><p>I have read that HCG causes a negative feedback loop on LH and FSH so long term is no good and my doc feels that long term Tamoxifen is a bad idea. He also feels that aging Lydig cells just don't respond to "normal" physiological levels of LH (since I have normal levels)...</p><p></p><p>So now I am back at square one..</p><p></p><p>I hate TRT because I am a super active guy, and in my humble opinion testosterone is very much like insulin in that, a lot of variable effect it's levels. For example, stress, high physical work load, diet....etc... so same for testosterone, when I do jiu jitsu 4 days a week, plus lift weights, plus work on my acreage at home, I need MORE testosterone than when I am sitting behind the computer or lounging all day. I know this personally from experience over decades of TRT.</p><p></p><p>So I don't want to go on TRT where I am always behind the 8 ball when it comes to dosage and I obviously don't want to stay low T, as I am irritable (generally, not always) and moody (like a grumpy old man). I only feel great while I'm at the gym pumping iron and that only lasts for a few hours after.</p><p></p><p>So I guess, I'm opening up to some THOUGHTFUL input from all of you. I am not going to respond to any jokes or flames of any kind.</p><p></p><p>Thanks in advance for any well thought (hopefully research or experience based) input.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Specialk, post: 38679, member: 13304"] Hey Guys, New here, but not new to TRT. I have to make a decision and I honestly don't know what to do. Ok, history, former competitive bodybuilder / power lifter who definitely took too much in his 20's (heck any of you old time body builders remember Zack's gym on the east coast??-- before steroids were illegal, you could buy them mail order legally!)... Anyway, I probably only did 10+ cycles my entire life, never had an issue coming off, didn't even know what PCT was back then (1980's)... Life moved on, I always lifted (still do) but had some very serious stress when I was about 35 yrs old (about 20 yrs ago) before than felt great, was big and strong and happy as a clam. But after the big time stress, I got depressed, not medicated, just normal human condition after/during stress... a buddy of mine was on TRT back then and suggested I try one of his gel packs... so I did and I felt like a million bucks in short order. So I found a TRT doc and while they did all the testing, pituitary was ok, hypothalamus was ok, even my nards were ok, yet my total and free T was low... 320+- (I can't remember) so they put me on TRT and I have been on it for all this time... Almost 2 decades. I had some hard core stress again (hey I'm blessed only two times in 51 years!)...but I guess my hormones take the brunt of stress, because I got hypER-thyroid (not hyp-O)... it was the most horrible experience I've even been through as I am a high adrenaline guy to begin with, I went to and endo and he said hyp-ER-thyroid makes you 10 times more sensitive to adrenaline, so it was like an anxiety attack on steroids, continually, until they got me on beta blockers (at the hospital... I tried to tuff it out on my own and wound up in the hospital, shaking violently, had lost 30 lbs in 2 weeks....etc.) The endo said I didn't have Hashimoto's or Graves, just stress related inflammation of my thyroid, it ended, never came back and I've been good for almost 3 years with no re-occurance. The endo also wanted to address my TRT since I was there (He's a cool guy) and after running a bunch of tests, he told me there is nothing wrong with my system and I should take Clomid to get everything up and running again. So I was supposed to take 50mg daily and I could not handle it... I was light headed, sad - weepy...etc.. I have a family and can't be walking around feeling sorry for myself all day every day. So I went to 25mg daily and it was tolerable but I got tested and my Total T level was only 450 (I don't remember ng/dl, or pg/ml ) so I was not feeling like it was worth the side effects. So I thought, well, if everything works, why not just suck it up and see if your body can fix itself. So I went off TRT completely for over a year... my labs were worse... 325+- with free T basically in the right proportion, E2 all in right proportions... So I went back to my TRT doc (a friend of mine) and told him I wanted to try Dr. Schully's (sp?) protocol, but since I am real sensitive to all drugs, I went on 1000 iu HCG EOD for 10 shots while simultaneously taking 20mg/day Tamoxifen ( Nolvadex) and continued the Tamoxifen for an additional 2 weeks after the shots were done. I've done the protocol twice and my labs just came in at 324 Total T, 4.2 Free T and I didn't need the tests as I knew I felt crummy.. However while on HCG I felt fantastic, even my family was excited for me. I have read that HCG causes a negative feedback loop on LH and FSH so long term is no good and my doc feels that long term Tamoxifen is a bad idea. He also feels that aging Lydig cells just don't respond to "normal" physiological levels of LH (since I have normal levels)... So now I am back at square one.. I hate TRT because I am a super active guy, and in my humble opinion testosterone is very much like insulin in that, a lot of variable effect it's levels. For example, stress, high physical work load, diet....etc... so same for testosterone, when I do jiu jitsu 4 days a week, plus lift weights, plus work on my acreage at home, I need MORE testosterone than when I am sitting behind the computer or lounging all day. I know this personally from experience over decades of TRT. So I don't want to go on TRT where I am always behind the 8 ball when it comes to dosage and I obviously don't want to stay low T, as I am irritable (generally, not always) and moody (like a grumpy old man). I only feel great while I'm at the gym pumping iron and that only lasts for a few hours after. So I guess, I'm opening up to some THOUGHTFUL input from all of you. I am not going to respond to any jokes or flames of any kind. Thanks in advance for any well thought (hopefully research or experience based) input. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
HCG monotherapy: Good first option for a Secondary case?
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