HCG Monotherapy - DHT off the chart

[JLC]

I've been on HCG monotherapy for about 8 months now. At first, I was taking 1000 IU every other day, E2 went really high, so I started aromasin...E2 remained high, so I began adjusting my dosing schedule. Since I started, my DHT has steadily been rising

Currently, I am taking 800 IU of HCG every 3 days and 50mg of aromasin (25 morning, 25 night)

My latest labs were done 2 weeks ago:

Testosterone: 22.2 (8.4 - 28.8 nmol/L)
Free Testosterone: 436 (196-636 pmol/L)
Estradiol: 85 (< 150 pmol/L)

DHT: HI 7009 (860 - 3406 pmol/L)

Previous DHT numbers were 4461 then 5761.

I have been on crestor (5mg daily) for the last year, I stopped that 2 weeks ago to try to get the testosterone numbers up.

Does anyone have any idea why my DHT continues to rise? I was under the impression that most guys have low DHT on HCG mono?

Should I try reducing my HCG dose further?

 

[Vince Carter]

I know there's A LOT of aromatization that occurs in the testes, I'm not up on monotherapy HCG but you're on some hefty and frequent doses. Which may be fine for monotherapy. I'm not sure the connection to DHT though there's an abundance of 5AR, in the scrotal skin.

 

[JLC]

I should have mentioned that I'm administering the HCG with IM injections (glute).

It's very obvious how much aromatization is happening in the testes, it was tough getting E2 under control. It probably also worth noting that my test numbers are identical with 800 IU Q3D as they were with 1000 IU EOD - but has E2 dropped significantly.

I've been considering lowering HCG to 600 IU Q3D

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I should have mentioned that I'm administering the HCG with IM injections (glute).

Just curious...why? It sure is a lot easier administering HCG with SubQ injections into the abdomen area.

 

[JLC]

Just curious...why? It sure is a lot easier administering HCG with SubQ injections into the abdomen area.

That's why my doc advised. I also thought that aromatization was more likely/rapid with subQ - especially at the doses I was taking (1000 IU).

Is subQ feasible with 500-1000 units per shot?

 

[Vince Carter]

SubQ or IM has no bearing on HCG and aromatization, the aromatization stems from stimulating the testes, i.e., in the testes.

Now as far as SQ and IM, as far as I'm concerned, how your reconstituting it can determine one or the other delivery method. Say you mix to a concentration of 1ml = 1000iu, it's my opinion, that 1mL of fluid is a lot for that spot of fat to handle. It's a lot of fluid. Perhaps why your Dr instructs IM, but who knows.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Is subQ feasible with 500-1000 units per shot?

A lot of people pin 1mL into their abdomen without any problems. For me personally, I have a .5mL limit (for any single injection) for anything into my abdomen area. I don't like lumps or bumps there, so that's my self imposed limit.

You could easily pin 1mL SubQ into the fat pads on your hips, or even in your glutes with no problem. A small gauge insulin pin (1/2" or 5/16"/29-31ga) will work just fine. There's really no need to go IM, unless you enjoy long, thick needles.

 

[Re-Ride]

Hi JLC, I'm not a doctor or an expert. I can't comment on the high DHT. I've been on hCG mono just a bit longer than you.

Do yo have a T serum goal? Would it be higher than 436? How are you feeling? What brand of hCG are you using? Are you under a doctor's care?

How many hours after the last injection were the labs drawn? One T reading doesn't tell us much. It's surprising how fast hcG induced T can drop after peaking.

I believe the evidence suggests lower more frequent dosing. Common regimens are 500 EOD, 350 EOD, 250-500 ED. I personally would not go E3D again as I have done in the past. I'm not sure I've realized any lasting benefit >800 IU per dose.

It's possible you may be a candidate for TRT if you consistently test under 500 on hCG mono.

E2 gradually tapered off quite a bit on it's own after 9 months.

 

[JLC]

I would like my total T to be as close to the top of the range as possible (1000 ng/dL) and for my free T to be in the optimal range of 2% of total T. I'm taking Pregnyl and under the care of my GP. He's been great.

All my blood draws are before 10am prior to any medications and on a day I'm scheduled for an injection (3 days since last injection).

Just to put things in perspective, I'll convert my total T numbers to the the more common US format (Testosterone: ng/dL; DHT: pg/mL) for my last 3 draws:

Oct 21, 2015

Total T: 649 ng/dL
DHT: 1296 pg/mL

(this was 1000 units HCG EOD with 12.5mg aromasin ED)

Dec 17, 2015

Total T: 736 ng/dL
DHT: 1674 pg/mL

(This was 1000 units HCG E3D, 25mg aromasin ED: 12.5mg am, 12.5mg pm). The climbing DHT is why I reduced HCG to 800 units after this draw.

Feb 12, 2016

Total T: 649 ng/dL
DHT: 2037 pg/mL

(800 units HCG E3D, 50mg aromasin ED: 25mg am, 25mg pm)

 

[Re-Ride]

.... It probably also worth noting that my test numbers are identical with 800 IU Q3D as they were with 1000 IU EOD - but has E2 dropped significantly.

Why dose over 800 then?

I've been considering lowering HCG to 600 IU Q3D

Might try asking your doc to go 500 EOD. I'm getting better results on ED inj if that's any help.

That's why my doc advised....

Is subQ feasible with 500-1000 units per shot?

Sure, as noted above cut the dilution in half

Labs 4-8hrs after dosing and labs just prior to will give you a better idea of what's working for you.