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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
HCG Efficacy: Should We Measure 17-OH-progesterone to Titrate HCG Dose?
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<blockquote data-quote="Nelson Vergel" data-source="post: 54802" data-attributes="member: 3"><p>So far, three studies agree on the 500 IU every other day (not twice per week as most of us use) as a good dose to use with TRT if you want optimum fertility. We have no data on that dose used every 3.5 days.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here is a description of the method used in the reference I posted in the first post on this thread:</p><p></p><p></p><p>"<span style="color: #000000">All subjects were treated with testosterone enanthate (TE) 200 mg IM on day 0, 7 and 14 to suppress endogenous gonadotropin secretion from the pituitary. After enrollment, the hospital pharmacist, randomly assigned subjects to one of four hCG treatment groups: hCG 0 (saline placebo), 125, 250 or 500 IU, which was administered subcutaneously every other day for 3 weeks (11 total doses). "</span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">"</span><span style="color: #000000">At end-of-treatment, serum 17-hydroxyprogesterone was significantly reduced in the 0 IU hCG group [median (25%, 75%): 5.1 (3.8, 6.2) nmol/L at baseline vs. 2.1 (1.5, 2.5) nmol/L at end-of-treatment; p = 0.02). In contrast, serum 17-hydroxyprogesterone was significantly increased in the 500 IU hCG group [median (25%, 75%): 4.6 (4.1, 5.4) nmol/L at baseline vs. 7.8 (5.5, 9.4) nmol/L at end-of-treatment; (p = 0.02)]. "</span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Full paper: </span>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674872/</p><p></p><p>You guys may remember that 500 IU every other day was also the dose used in the Lipshultz study.</p><p></p><p>I am trying to get Dr Lipshultz and his fellows to look at our dose of 500 IU twice per week. We will see if that dose is good enough for fertility. In my opinion, it is good enough for testicular atrophy and libido but I have doubts that it can help a man to maximize his sperm count and quality on TRT. I remember one of our members posting sperm sample results that support my opinion.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that some men gain too much water on HCG. This is due to its inhibiting effect on 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. This enzyme "clears out" cortisol from the blood. When it is inhibited, more cortisol accumulates which can cause water retention (note: this is the main reason for edema in TRT, NOT high estradiol as most of you believe).</p><p></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8546-Water-Retention-Caused-by-Testosterone-May-Have-Nothing-to-Do-with-Estradiol" target="_blank">Water Retention Caused by Testosterone May Have Nothing to Do with Estradiol</a></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nelson Vergel, post: 54802, member: 3"] So far, three studies agree on the 500 IU every other day (not twice per week as most of us use) as a good dose to use with TRT if you want optimum fertility. We have no data on that dose used every 3.5 days. Here is a description of the method used in the reference I posted in the first post on this thread: "[COLOR=#000000][FONT='inherit']All subjects were treated with testosterone enanthate (TE) 200 mg IM on day 0, 7 and 14 to suppress endogenous gonadotropin secretion from the pituitary. After enrollment, the hospital pharmacist, randomly assigned subjects to one of four hCG treatment groups: hCG 0 (saline placebo), 125, 250 or 500 IU, which was administered subcutaneously every other day for 3 weeks (11 total doses). " "[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT='inherit']At end-of-treatment, serum 17-hydroxyprogesterone was significantly reduced in the 0 IU hCG group [median (25%, 75%): 5.1 (3.8, 6.2) nmol/L at baseline vs. 2.1 (1.5, 2.5) nmol/L at end-of-treatment; p = 0.02). In contrast, serum 17-hydroxyprogesterone was significantly increased in the 500 IU hCG group [median (25%, 75%): 4.6 (4.1, 5.4) nmol/L at baseline vs. 7.8 (5.5, 9.4) nmol/L at end-of-treatment; (p = 0.02)]. " Full paper: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674872/ You guys may remember that 500 IU every other day was also the dose used in the Lipshultz study. I am trying to get Dr Lipshultz and his fellows to look at our dose of 500 IU twice per week. We will see if that dose is good enough for fertility. In my opinion, it is good enough for testicular atrophy and libido but I have doubts that it can help a man to maximize his sperm count and quality on TRT. I remember one of our members posting sperm sample results that support my opinion. I agree that some men gain too much water on HCG. This is due to its inhibiting effect on 17 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. This enzyme "clears out" cortisol from the blood. When it is inhibited, more cortisol accumulates which can cause water retention (note: this is the main reason for edema in TRT, NOT high estradiol as most of you believe). [B][URL="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8546-Water-Retention-Caused-by-Testosterone-May-Have-Nothing-to-Do-with-Estradiol"]Water Retention Caused by Testosterone May Have Nothing to Do with Estradiol[/URL][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
HCG Efficacy: Should We Measure 17-OH-progesterone to Titrate HCG Dose?
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