GHK-cu and DHT

[JmarkH]

Does anyone have experience with GHK-CU? Will it have a significant impact on DHT or E2?

My dermatologist is prescribing the use of a chemical peel on some precancerous spots. After the two-week treatment, it will take up to four weeks for new skin to grow into the area. I'm considering using GHK-CU during that period. But I'm also wondering what it will do to my DHT and E2. I've read where GHK-cu helps grow back hair.

 

[Dog427]

I have used GHK-cu injectable and topical and found no effect on E2 or DHT. My experience has been more positive effect on skin than hair.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

First time I hear of this

Copper peptide GHK-Cu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[thatcarnarn]

It has an impact on type 1 5AR. Easy google

 

[Cataceous]

It has an impact on type 1 5AR. Easy google

I'm not seeing any links to credible research. But definitely skepticism. For example "Cinnamaldehyde_45" on Reddit:

This myth needs to die. Given the amount of skepticism I've seen on this subreddit every other time this topic has been brought up, I would have expected someone else to kill it by now. But since nobody has, I suppose I'll do the honors.​

​

GHK-Cu is not a 5-ar inhibitor. As far as I can tell, this notion was confabulated by a few articles that concluded that since finasteride and GHK-Cu can both reverse hair loss, they must operate via the same mechanism, which is scientifically untenable.​

​

Finasteride is a steroid. Specifically, an azasteroid, with an amidated (lactamated?) A ring. The only other difference between finasteride and testosterone is the substitution of the beta hydroxyl group on carbon 17 with a beta tert-butylamide substituent. Because of its similar structure, finasteride can bind to the active domain of 5-ar, inhibiting testosterone in the process. GHK can't do this because it's not a steroid—it's a peptide, and a fairly hydrophilic one at that (as demonstrated by its high affinity for Cu2+ ions). So, I wouldn't expect to find it anywhere near heavily-reduced steroids like testosterone and DHT (the latter being fully-reduced) in the cytosol. And I definitely don't see how it could inhibit enzymes with lipid/sterol-based substrates.​

​

GHK is also known to operate via numerous anti-fibrotic mechanisms such as decreasing activation of cytokines like TGF-β, which shuts off the anagen phase of the hair cycle.​

...​

​

 

[thatcarnarn]

I'm not seeing any links to credible research. But definitely skepticism. For example "Cinnamaldehyde_45" on Reddit:

This myth needs to die. Given the amount of skepticism I've seen on this subreddit every other time this topic has been brought up, I would have expected someone else to kill it by now. But since nobody has, I suppose I'll do the honors.​

​

GHK-Cu is not a 5-ar inhibitor. As far as I can tell, this notion was confabulated by a few articles that concluded that since finasteride and GHK-Cu can both reverse hair loss, they must operate via the same mechanism, which is scientifically untenable.​

​

Finasteride is a steroid. Specifically, an azasteroid, with an amidated (lactamated?) A ring. The only other difference between finasteride and testosterone is the substitution of the beta hydroxyl group on carbon 17 with a beta tert-butylamide substituent. Because of its similar structure, finasteride can bind to the active domain of 5-ar, inhibiting testosterone in the process. GHK can't do this because it's not a steroid—it's a peptide, and a fairly hydrophilic one at that (as demonstrated by its high affinity for Cu2+ ions). So, I wouldn't expect to find it anywhere near heavily-reduced steroids like testosterone and DHT (the latter being fully-reduced) in the cytosol. And I definitely don't see how it could inhibit enzymes with lipid/sterol-based substrates.​

​

GHK is also known to operate via numerous anti-fibrotic mechanisms such as decreasing activation of cytokines like TGF-β, which shuts off the anagen phase of the hair cycle.​

...​

​

How does GHK-Cu improve hair follicle growth?

GHK-Cu studies revealed how it grows hair follicles while activating inflammatory mast cells, macrophages, and reduces inflammation via antioxidation.

www.peptidesciences.com

 

[Cataceous]

How does GHK-Cu improve hair follicle growth?

GHK-Cu studies revealed how it grows hair follicles while activating inflammatory mast cells, macrophages, and reduces inflammation via antioxidation.

www.peptidesciences.com

Which supports my point, as there's no underlying research showing that GHK-Cu itself affects 5 alpha-reductase. The article's source cites a reference showing that various cations, including copper and zinc, inhibit 5 alpha-reductase in human adrenal carcinoma cells transfected with expression vectors. From this one might infer that directly supplementing copper or zinc would be more effective, and that's allowing that the copper bound to GHK is released where needed, which is not a given.

 

[JmarkH]

I have used GHK-cu injectable and topical and found no effect on E2 or DHT. My experience has been more positive effect on skin than hair.

Thanks for the personal experience. Perhaps more will relate their personal experiences with GHK-cu.

Which proves the point, as there's no underlying research showing that GHK-Cu itself affects 5 alpha-reductase. The article's source cites a reference showing that various cations, including copper and zinc, inhibit 5 alpha-reductase in human adrenal carcinoma cells transfected with expression vectors. From this one might infer that directly supplementing copper or zinc would be more effective, and that's allowing that the copper bound to GHK is released where needed, which is not a given.

It appears the impact on DHT and or E2 is minimal or none. I will relate my experience with this peptide afterward. That will be in six or seven weeks. I'm also hoping to improve mild crepe skin as an additional benefit, although I wouldn't take it just for that.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the personal experience. Perhaps more will relate their personal experiences with GHK-cu.

It appears the impact on DHT and or E2 is minimal or none. I will relate my experience with this peptide afterward. That will be in six or seven weeks. I'm also hoping to improve mild crepe skin as an additional benefit, although I wouldn't take it just for that.

I know this thread has been dead for leve a year, but any update on how it went by any chance?

 

[JmarkH]

I think it was worth taking for my skin condition at the time. I was unable to tell if there were any other benefits. My crepe skin has improved over time but that may just be everything, including TRT.

 

[Gman86]

I think it was worth taking for my skin condition at the time. I was unable to tell if there were any other benefits. My crepe skin has improved over time but that may just be everything, including TRT.

Thanks for the reply. I just started taking it a few days ago. 1mg am, 1mg pm.

Are u still taking it? if not, how long did u take it for, and why did u stop taking it?

what was/ is ur dosage and frequency?

any negatives that u could tell from taking it?

 

[JmarkH]

That has been so long ago I don't remember. I took it until the vile was empty. There were no negatives.
I took it for precancerous spots on my arm. The doctor gave me a medicine that basically destroyed the topmost layers of skin. The ghkcu helped the skin grow back and repair.

 

[BadassBlues]

I have had a lot of sun exposure, plus a significant amount of tanning booth time. My skin was really looking bad as I aged. Crepey, loss of elasticity and dull. I have used glycolic acid with some success, but nothing like what the GHK cu has done.

I started using GHK cu topical several years ago on my face with excellent results. Improved elasticity, firmness and overall brightening. It is amazing stuff. I began injections last year, 2 mg a day for 6 weeks at a time. I hate to use superlatives and sound like a used car salesman, but I have had phenomenal results in my overall skin improvement. Crepey skin is gone and the overall texture, brightness and elasticity has improved to the point that I don't recall my skin ever looking as good.

@Gman86 has researched some other interesting points of GHK cu usage. I follow Dr. Seeds protocol which is 6 weeks on with 6 weeks off. The reason he recommended that was due to the potential for copper toxicity. New evidence indicates that the amount of copper injected at 2mg is significantly under the RDA, so it would appear that the possibility of copper toxicity is nonexistent with that dosage.

I do take a zinc supplement to balance to zinc / copper ratios as a precaution.

 

[Gman86]

I have had a lot of sun exposure, plus a significant amount of tanning booth time. My skin was really looking bad as I aged. Crepey, loss of elasticity and dull. I have used glycolic acid with some success, but nothing like what the GHK cu has done.

I started using GHK cu topical several years ago on my face with excellent results. Improved elasticity, firmness and overall brightening. It is amazing stuff. I began injections last year, 2 mg a day for 6 weeks at a time. I hate to use superlatives and sound like a used car salesman, but I have had phenomenal results in my overall skin improvement. Crepey skin is gone and the overall texture, brightness and elasticity has improved to the point that I don't recall my skin ever looking as good.

@Gman86 has researched some other interesting points of GHK cu usage. I follow Dr. Seeds protocol which is 6 weeks on with 6 weeks off. The reason he recommended that was due to the potential for copper toxicity. New evidence indicates that the amount of copper injected at 2mg is significantly under the RDA, so it would appear that the possibility of copper toxicity is nonexistent with that dosage.

I do take a zinc supplement to balance to zinc / copper ratios as a precaution.

Do u still use the topical form on ur hair and face everyday? If so, what’s that routine look like?

 

[BadassBlues]

Do u still use the topical form on ur hair and face everyday? If so, what’s that routine look like?

I am currently using this product on my face at night:

Amazon.com

I am working on making my own, I'll post the formula once I have it worked out.

I put together a formula for my hair that includes GHK cu, caffeine, black rice water, peppermint oil and Keratinocyte Growth Factor (KGF)

 

[Cataceous]

... New evidence indicates that the amount of copper injected at 2mg is significantly under the RDA, so it would appear that the possibility of copper toxicity is nonexistent with that dosage.
...

New evidence relating to copper's oral bioavailability? The amount injected is readily calculated with atomic weights. Per Wikipedia the molar mass of GHK-Cu is 340.38. The single copper atom has a molar mass of 63.546. So copper is about 19% of the complex by weight. Of course there's a further assumption that all of that copper is going to be available for other uses. Recommended daily — oral — intakes for copper seem to run around 1-2 mg. Tolerable upper limits are given as 5-10 mg/day. Your 2 mg per day of GHK-Cu gives you under 0.4 mg Cu absorbed per day. However, if incomplete oral absorption is taken into account then recommended intakes must be reduced. One source puts absorption at about 30-40%. The worst-case scenario then has the recommended daily absorption as 0.3-0.6 mg and the tolerable upper limits become 1.5-3.0 mg absorbed per day.

 

[BadassBlues]

New evidence relating to copper's oral bioavailability? The amount injected is readily calculated with atomic weights. Per Wikipedia the molar mass of GHK-Cu is 340.38. The single copper atom has a molar mass of 63.546. So copper is about 19% of the complex by weight. Of course there's a further assumption that all of that copper is going to be available for other uses. Recommended daily — oral — intakes for copper seem to run around 1-2 mg. Tolerable upper limits are given as 5-10 mg/day. Your 2 mg per day of GHK-Cu gives you under 0.4 mg Cu absorbed per day. However, if incomplete oral absorption is taken into account then recommended intakes must be reduced. One source puts absorption at about 30-40%. The worst-case scenario then has the recommended daily absorption as 0.3-0.6 mg and the tolerable upper limits become 1.5-3.0 mg absorbed per day.

So… in terms that all of us with less than cat like knowledge of such things can comprehend, can you summarize what you are saying in such a way that it can be readily utilized as a measure of usage? I truly appreciate the information, but please dumb it down for us… Feline logic does not always translate well to canine mentality

 

[FunkOdyssey]

So… in terms that all of us with less than cat like knowledge of such things can comprehend, can you summarize what you are saying in such a way that it can be readily utilized as a measure of usage? I truly appreciate the information, but please dumb it down for us… Feline logic does not always translate well to canine mentality

He's translating both injected CHK-cu and orally ingested copper to milligrams of copper absorbed to make sure you are comparing apples to apples. If you inject 2 mg of GHK-cu, you absorb .38 mg of copper (19% of GHK-cu mass is copper X 100% bioavailability). If you eat the upper range of recommended dietary copper (2 mg) per day, you absorb ~0.6 mg (2 mg x estimated 40% bioavailability).

My takeaway is that unless your dietary intake of copper is unusually high, GHK-cu injections will not cause you to exceed the tolerable intake, and in many cases will not even cause you to exceed the recommended intake. Consequently, depending on your diet, there may be no reason to take breaks from GHK-cu treatment.

I have a question for you @BadassBlues: Are you administering the 2 mg per day as a single injection or morning and night 1 mg injections?

 

[BadassBlues]

He's translating both injected CHK-cu and orally ingested copper to milligrams of copper absorbed to make sure you are comparing apples to apples. If you inject 2 mg of GHK-cu, you absorb .38 mg of copper (19% of GHK-cu mass is copper X 100% bioavailability). If you eat the upper range of recommended dietary copper (2 mg) per day, you absorb ~0.6 mg (2 mg x estimated 40% bioavailability).

My takeaway is that unless your dietary intake of copper is unusually high, GHK-cu injections will not cause you to exceed the tolerable intake, and in many cases will not even cause you to exceed the recommended intake. Consequently, depending on your diet, there may be no reason to take breaks from GHK-cu treatment.

I have a question for you @BadassBlues: Are you administering the 2 mg per day as a single injection or morning and night 1 mg injections?

Thanks for the translation. I do one injection in the AM.

I would like to cycle this more frequently. There is such limited actual data on injecting GHK, most all is anecdotal. I have Dr. Seeds book on peptide protocols that I refer to. He references copper toxicity and recommends the 6 week cycles.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the translation. I do one injection in the AM.

I would like to cycle this more frequently. There is such limited actual data on injecting GHK, most all is anecdotal. I have Dr. Seeds book on peptide protocols that I refer to. He references copper toxicity and recommends the 6 week cycles.

Any reason to not do it am and pm?

how many mgs do u inject once in the am?

I’ve been doing 1mg upon waking, and another 1mg prior to bed everyday