dutchplus saliva testing accuracy

[jmcelh8175]

45 y/o male on TRT since Dec 2017, started on Clomid and moved to bi monthly Sustanol 250 injections July 2019
Changed Doctors and new Dr has me doing Dutchplus saliva testing. Anyone have an idea how accurate these tests are compared to blood labs? I am an American expat living in the Gulf region and TRT is difficult here due to archaic laws.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The only saliva hormone test that has shown to correlate with blood levels is the one for cortisol. Do not waste your money on the DUTCH tests.

 

[Vvs1]

Are you positive that it’s saliva? DU in DUTCH stands for dried urine. Some doctors use urine testing which is more comprehensive (Dollar for dollar) where they can notice if an enzyme is working too high or too low.

Do you have before & after results?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Are you positive that it’s saliva? DU in DUTCH stands for dried urine. Some doctors use urine testing which is more comprehensive (Dollar for dollar) where they can notice if an enzyme is working too high or too low.

Do you have before & after results?

Sorry, I meant dried urine but is also contains saliva. Not FDA validated. For hormones, there is nothing more accurate than blood tests based on liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry.

 

[bixt]

Thats valid, but what if one needs to analyse cortisol ups and downs throughout the day? It would be impractical to spend a day having blood drawn every couple hours.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thats valid, but what if one needs to analyse cortisol ups and downs throughout the day? It would be impractical to spend a day having blood drawn every couple hours.

A good night sleep can drastically change the cortisol curve, so it is highly variable. Making a diagnosis based on one day is really impractical.

 

[jmcelh8175]

Thanks for the responses gentlemen, I am not happy with the DutchPlus saliva testing , My Dr here is the one who pushed me in this direction. Neither of the Drs I have worked with here in the Gulf region are responsive to my input when it comes to the blood work I request. It is frustrating to say the least.

My current Dr here says they are willing to work with a Dr in the states, which means I double my out of pocket expense, however I see no other way forward, other than to use both. I am currently thinking of pursuing a Dr patient relationship with Dr O'Connor metabolic Doc. According to the Dr here if I get Rx from the states I will be able to bring the Rx with me coming through customs, and thus be able to use a Testosterone other than Sus 250.

 

[jmcelh8175]

Are you positive that it’s saliva? DU in DUTCH stands for dried urine. Some doctors use urine testing which is more comprehensive (Dollar for dollar) where they can notice if an enzyme is working too high or too low.

Do you have before & after results?

yes, it is DutchPlus Saliva testing as well as urine samples, the Dr is using this protocol testing to adjust my TRT, I am not convinced of the efficacy versus blood testing. It is very difficult to explain , all the blood work I need, as these Drs are very arrogant and difficult to deal with, I have explained that I am an informed patient ( I have read almost every book on TRT, and stay up to date)

 

[jmcelh8175]

Sorry Vvs1, just saw the rest of your reply, here are my labs that were drawn before (as blood ) and here are the two dutchplus saliva plus urine.

Blood
Test Free 80.4 pg/ml
Test 4.91 ng/ml
SHBG 46.4 nmol/L
Estradiol 32 pg/ml

As I said trying to get the Drs here to listen and do all the work I ask for is damn near impossible, this is why I am hoping to work with Dr. O'Connor and see if using him and my Dr here in the Gulf region I can get all the lab tests I need for a better overall picture.

Dutch Plus Testing results
Progesterone Metabolites (Urine)
b-Pregnanediol 45ng/mg (Normal 75-400)
a-Pregnanediol 14ng/mg (Normal 20-30)

Estrone(E1) 4.6ng/mg (Normal4-16)
Estradiol (E2) 1.28ng/mg (Normal 0.5-2.2)
Estriol(E3) 2.5ng/mg (Normal2-8)


Total Estrogen 12.7ng/mg (Normal 10-34)

Androgens and Metabolites (Urine)
DHEA-S 26.0 ng/mg (Normal 30-1500)
Androsterone 1034ng/mg (Normal 500-3000)
Etiocholanolone 463ng/mg (Normal400-1500)
Testosterone 4.5ng/mg (Normal 25-115)
5aDHT 2.6ng/mg (Normal 5-25)
Epi Test 14.9ng/mg (Normal 25-115)

Most of the saliva test were for cortisol which was very low.

 

[Vvs1]

Sorry Vvs1, just saw the rest of your reply, here are my labs that were drawn before (as blood ) and here are the two dutchplus saliva plus urine.

Blood
Test Free 80.4 pg/ml
Test 4.91 ng/ml
SHBG 46.4 nmol/L
Estradiol 32 pg/ml

As I said trying to get the Drs here to listen and do all the work I ask for is damn near impossible, this is why I am hoping to work with Dr. O'Connor and see if using him and my Dr here in the Gulf region I can get all the lab tests I need for a better overall picture.

Dutch Plus Testing results
Progesterone Metabolites (Urine)
b-Pregnanediol 45ng/mg (Normal 75-400)
a-Pregnanediol 14ng/mg (Normal 20-30)

Estrone(E1) 4.6ng/mg (Normal4-16)
Estradiol (E2) 1.28ng/mg (Normal 0.5-2.2)
Estriol(E3) 2.5ng/mg (Normal2-8)


Total Estrogen 12.7ng/mg (Normal 10-34)

Androgens and Metabolites (Urine)
DHEA-S 26.0 ng/mg (Normal 30-1500)
Androsterone 1034ng/mg (Normal 500-3000)
Etiocholanolone 463ng/mg (Normal400-1500)
Testosterone 4.5ng/mg (Normal 25-115)
5aDHT 2.6ng/mg (Normal 5-25)
Epi Test 14.9ng/mg (Normal 25-115)

Most of the saliva test were for cortisol which was very low.

Are these before TRT? Anything thyroid or iron?

I’ve seen the urine tests that have a great result format. So you can spot an enzyme deficiency and test all hormones at a decent price. I question the accuracy and that’s the reason why I chose not to do this yet.

DUTCH Complete™ Sample Report (Male) – DUTCH Test

You should find a specialist like Defy Medical that will consult over the phone.

I’d suggest eating eggs and supplementing with vitamin d. Everything starts with cholesterol and is converted by enzymes to each hormone.

 

[jmcelh8175]

Vvs1, Thanks for the reply, the saliva and urine test are at the three week point of sustanon 250, I too question the accuracy of saliva and urine test for TRT/TOT.

I am talking to Dr. O'Connor's office about a consult, my Dr here in the gulf region is happy to collaborate , Im just frustrated that my concerns here are not met. Will look into Vita D supplementation. I take 4GMs omega 3 fish oil by Dr Sears daily, a Polyphenol daily, and 2.5mg of melatonin at night.

Thanks again for the assistance, Cheers!