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1) Withonly TSH pre-treatment, it is my assumption that the others are normal. I thinkthis because looking at the lab results if I was hypo before treatment it wouldbe primary hypo (high range to high TSH and Low range to low T4 = underatcivethyroid). The next lab set is reverse Tsh and indicates secondary (pituitary)hypo. I would not think one would get better and the other get “sick”. TSH, as no lab proof/studies show, should not have been affected at all by TRT, but yet mine was. My mindsays there is something else going on. Admittedly I could be over thinkingthings but there it is. And agreed – I can't possibly know for sure with onlyTsh pre-TRT.
I am open to learning, and this sight has taught me a lot, but this is also a complex issue with many many variables. If GP's and Endo's don't understand it better than we do and aren't open to learning, then as it currently stands the low T man is stuck with high out of pocket expenses for Life/Wellness doctors who seem to know little more than the others or are rip off businesses praying on the man hoping for better. there are a few good ones out there but the knowledge is limited to those few who really want to research and help men Correctly. I have yet to find one in Alabama. I have so far found a urologist who is open to my suggestions, so long as I can medically back what i'm asking of him, which is as it should be.
2) Thelab ranges were from an independent lab my second doctor used, that has sincegone out of business. My new labs are with quest, but I haven't looked for anydifference in their ranges.
3) Symptoms during trt: lack ofmotivation or interest in work, life, hobbies I love; deceased sex drive; EDissues (mostly in maintaining); fatigue and tiredness (I'm good till a aboutlunch then I just don't have energy or mood for anything); my memory and mentalfog/confusion have actually gotten worse over the past 6-8 months, they nevergot better even after starting TRT; moodiness; anxiety; depression (been a lifelong battle with that so its not new, just not better); muscle weakness sometimes to the point I have trouble opening a bag of chips (in comparison at start of TRT I was benching 220 and leg pressing 780) now, 18 months later, my 50lb dumbbells weigh too much to bench.
I'm shure theres more but what is really interesting is all these symptoms are also symptoms of low T and Pregnenolone deficiency. Anyway if there is something specific i'm missing or that would help you help me, ask.

After starting trt my HDL decreased tobelow or just over low range and triglycerides skyrocketed and have stayed upperrange. Before TRT Tri stayed around 75 now it stays around 120, LDL stayedbetween 104-110 (0-99 labcorp range) now it stays 117-130. HDL stayed around 55(>39) now it stays bwtween 38-45. I don't know if that is significant, mydoctors didn't think so, but I've learned not to trust them so…

Which brings another thing I got mynew doctor to run more tests and as of December 23, pregnenolone is <10, dhea is 108, shbg 24,cortisol I forget but was low in range, testosterone 1017, and free test was 24.1, E2 22.
As far as FT4 as of December 9 yes it'sabove range with T4 in the low side of in range. This is after taking HCG 500iuEOD for 2 months. The endocrinologist said t3 didn't mean anything and wouldn'ttest it.

My next labs are in two weeks whenI'll be stopping Hcg, I'm gonna try to get him to add a thyroid panel. I'mhoping pregnenolone and dhea are up. The way I understand it if either/both arelow ALL hormone production suffers. Essentially I'm trying a restart but itwill most likely be serm maintained. And it might not work. At 35 I had mytestosterone checked as a possible cause of anger and depression issuesand it was 537.

At diagnosis my T was 383 on 2 tests4 weeks apart and my FT was 6 tested on the second lab. LH was 5.7 and FSH was3.9. every doctor I've seen so far says I'm secondary, and with no abnormalresults on MRI of pituitary, there is no reason to not try to resart, support or boost mynormal production. Also at the time of my diagnosis I have an epididymal cyst which I thought was getting bigger. compared to the ultrasound 2 years prior - at the time of my diagnosis my testes had already atrophied 20%, the cyst was the exact same size.
Interestingly, I was on thetestosterone diet, d-aparatic acid, TribulusTerrestris, Tongkat Ali, and Zinc during the time my initial tests were beingdone and I was diagnosed as low T.

Sorry for the length trying to be thorough but detailed and complete, and I don't do forums (aside from viewing info) so this is all new to me. Thanks for reading and any advice, info or teaching that may be offered.

<blockquote data-quote="cyclingwolf" data-source="post: 59600" data-attributes="member: 14820">1)&nbsp; &nbsp; Withonly TSH pre-treatment, it is my assumption that the others are normal. I thinkthis because looking at the lab results if I was hypo before treatment it wouldbe primary hypo (high range to high TSH and Low range to low T4 = underatcivethyroid). The next lab set is reverse Tsh and indicates secondary (pituitary)hypo. I would not think one would get better and the other get “sick”. TSH, as no lab proof/studies show, should not have been affected at all by TRT, but yet mine was. My mindsays there is something else going on. Admittedly I could be over thinkingthings but there it is. And agreed &amp;#8211; I can&#039;t possibly know for sure with onlyTsh pre-TRT. I am open to learning, and this sight has taught me a lot, but this is also a complex issue with many many variables. If GP&#039;s and Endo&#039;s don&#039;t understand it better than we do and aren&#039;t open to learning, then as it currently stands the low T man is stuck with high out of pocket expenses for Life/Wellness doctors who seem to know little more than the others or are rip off businesses&nbsp; praying on the man hoping for better. there are a few good ones out there but the knowledge is limited to those few who really want to research and help men Correctly. I have yet to find one in Alabama. I have so far found a urologist who is open to my suggestions, so long as I can medically back what i&#039;m asking of him, which is as it should be.2)&nbsp; &nbsp; Thelab ranges were from an independent lab my second doctor used, that has sincegone out of business. My new labs are with quest, but I haven&#039;t looked for anydifference in their ranges.3)&nbsp;&nbsp; Symptoms during trt: lack ofmotivation or interest in work, life, hobbies I love; deceased sex drive; EDissues (mostly in maintaining); fatigue and tiredness (I&#039;m good till a aboutlunch then I just don&#039;t have energy or mood for anything); my memory and mentalfog/confusion have actually gotten worse over the past 6-8 months, they nevergot better even after starting TRT; moodiness; anxiety; depression (been a lifelong battle with that so its not new, just not better); muscle weakness sometimes to the point I have trouble opening a bag of chips (in comparison at start of TRT I was benching 220 and leg pressing 780) now, 18 months later, my 50lb dumbbells weigh too much to bench.I&#039;m shure theres more but what is really interesting is all these symptoms are also symptoms of low T and Pregnenolone deficiency. Anyway if there is something specific i&#039;m missing or that would help you help me, ask.&nbsp;&nbsp;After starting trt my HDL decreased tobelow or just over low range and triglycerides skyrocketed and have stayed upperrange. Before TRT Tri stayed around 75 now it stays around 120, LDL stayedbetween 104-110 (0-99 labcorp range) now it stays 117-130. HDL stayed around 55(&gt;39) now it stays bwtween 38-45. I don&#039;t know if that is significant, mydoctors didn&#039;t think so, but I&#039;ve learned not to trust them so&amp;#8230;&nbsp;Which brings another thing I got mynew doctor to run more tests and as of December 23, pregnenolone is &lt;10, dhea is 108, shbg 24,cortisol I forget but was low in range, testosterone 1017, and free test was 24.1, E2 22. As far as FT4 as of December 9 yes it&#039;sabove range with T4 in the low side of in range. This is after taking HCG 500iuEOD for 2 months. The endocrinologist said t3 didn&#039;t mean anything and wouldn&#039;ttest it. &nbsp;My next labs are in two weeks whenI&#039;ll be stopping Hcg, I&#039;m gonna try to get him to add a thyroid panel. I&#039;mhoping pregnenolone and dhea are up. The way I understand it if either/both arelow ALL hormone production suffers. Essentially I&#039;m trying a restart but itwill most likely be serm maintained. And it might not work. At 35 I had mytestosterone checked as&nbsp; a possible cause of anger and depression issuesand it was 537. &nbsp;At diagnosis my T was 383 on 2 tests4 weeks apart and my FT was 6 tested on the second lab. LH was 5.7 and FSH was3.9. every doctor I&#039;ve seen so far says I&#039;m secondary, and with no abnormalresults on MRI of pituitary, there is no reason to not try to resart, support or boost mynormal production. Also at the time of my diagnosis I have an epididymal cyst which I thought was getting bigger. compared to the ultrasound 2 years prior - at the time of my diagnosis my testes had already atrophied 20%, the cyst was the exact same size. Interestingly, I was on thetestosterone diet, d-aparatic acid, TribulusTerrestris, Tongkat Ali, and Zinc during the time my initial tests were beingdone and I was diagnosed as low T. Sorry for the length trying to be thorough but detailed and complete, and I don&#039;t do forums (aside from viewing info) so this is all new to me. Thanks for reading and any advice, info or teaching that may be offered.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="cyclingwolf, post: 59600, member: 14820"] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]1)[/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]Withonly TSH pre-treatment, it is my assumption that the others are normal. I thinkthis because looking at the lab results if I was hypo before treatment it wouldbe primary hypo (high range to high TSH and Low range to low T4 = underatcivethyroid). The next lab set is reverse Tsh and indicates secondary (pituitary)hypo. I would not think one would get better and the other get “sick”. TSH, as no lab proof/studies show, should not have been affected at all by TRT, but yet mine was. My mindsays there is something else going on. Admittedly I could be over thinkingthings but there it is. And agreed – I can't possibly know for sure with onlyTsh pre-TRT. I am open to learning, and this sight has taught me a lot, but this is also a complex issue with many many variables. If GP's and Endo's don't understand it better than we do and aren't open to learning, then as it currently stands the low T man is stuck with high out of pocket expenses for Life/Wellness doctors who seem to know little more than the others or are rip off businesses praying on the man hoping for better. there are a few good ones out there but the knowledge is limited to those few who really want to research and help men Correctly. I have yet to find one in Alabama. I have so far found a urologist who is open to my suggestions, so long as I can medically back what i'm asking of him, which is as it should be.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]2)[/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]Thelab ranges were from an independent lab my second doctor used, that has sincegone out of business. My new labs are with quest, but I haven't looked for anydifference in their ranges.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]3)[/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]Symptoms during trt: lack ofmotivation or interest in work, life, hobbies I love; deceased sex drive; EDissues (mostly in maintaining); fatigue and tiredness (I'm good till a aboutlunch then I just don't have energy or mood for anything); my memory and mentalfog/confusion have actually gotten worse over the past 6-8 months, they nevergot better even after starting TRT; moodiness; anxiety; depression (been a lifelong battle with that so its not new, just not better); muscle weakness sometimes to the point I have trouble opening a bag of chips (in comparison at start of TRT I was benching 220 and leg pressing 780) now, 18 months later, my 50lb dumbbells weigh too much to bench. I'm shure theres more but what is really interesting is all these symptoms are also symptoms of low T and Pregnenolone deficiency. Anyway if there is something specific i'm missing or that would help you help me, ask. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]After starting trt my HDL decreased tobelow or just over low range and triglycerides skyrocketed and have stayed upperrange. Before TRT Tri stayed around 75 now it stays around 120, LDL stayedbetween 104-110 (0-99 labcorp range) now it stays 117-130. HDL stayed around 55(>39) now it stays bwtween 38-45. I don't know if that is significant, mydoctors didn't think so, but I've learned not to trust them so…[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]Which brings another thing I got mynew doctor to run more tests and as of December 23, pregnenolone is <10, dhea is 108, shbg 24,cortisol I forget but was low in range, testosterone 1017, and free test was 24.1, E2 22. As far as FT4 as of December 9 yes it'sabove range with T4 in the low side of in range. This is after taking HCG 500iuEOD for 2 months. The endocrinologist said t3 didn't mean anything and wouldn'ttest it. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]My next labs are in two weeks whenI'll be stopping Hcg, I'm gonna try to get him to add a thyroid panel. I'mhoping pregnenolone and dhea are up. The way I understand it if either/both arelow ALL hormone production suffers. Essentially I'm trying a restart but itwill most likely be serm maintained. And it might not work. At 35 I had mytestosterone checked as a possible cause of anger and depression issuesand it was 537. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]At diagnosis my T was 383 on 2 tests4 weeks apart and my FT was 6 tested on the second lab. LH was 5.7 and FSH was3.9. every doctor I've seen so far says I'm secondary, and with no abnormalresults on MRI of pituitary, there is no reason to not try to resart, support or boost mynormal production. Also at the time of my diagnosis I have an epididymal cyst which I thought was getting bigger. compared to the ultrasound 2 years prior - at the time of my diagnosis my testes had already atrophied 20%, the cyst was the exact same size. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]Interestingly, I was on thetestosterone diet, d-aparatic acid, [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT="Tahoma"][COLOR=#000000]TribulusTerrestris, Tongkat Ali, and Zinc during the time my initial tests were beingdone and I was diagnosed as low T. Sorry for the length trying to be thorough but detailed and complete, and I don't do forums (aside from viewing info) so this is all new to me. Thanks for reading and any advice, info or teaching that may be offered. [/COLOR][/FONT] [/QUOTE]

Verification

TRT Hormone Predictor Widget

Understanding Your Hormones

Estradiol (E2)

A form of estrogen produced from testosterone. Important for bone health, mood, and libido. Too high can cause side effects; too low can affect well-being.

DHT

Dihydrotestosterone is a potent androgen derived from testosterone. Affects hair growth, prostate health, and masculinization effects.

Free Testosterone

The biologically active form of testosterone not bound to proteins. Directly available for cellular uptake and biological effects.

Scientific Reference

Lakshman KM, Kaplan B, Travison TG, Basaria S, Knapp PE, Singh AB, LaValley MP, Mazer NA, Bhasin S. The effects of injected testosterone dose and age on the conversion of testosterone to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone in young and older men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2010 Aug;95(8):3955-64.

DOI: 10.1210/jc.2010-0102 | PMID: 20534765 | PMCID: PMC2913038