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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Does Shutting Down LH with Testosterone Have Negative Effects?
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<blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 84864" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Not to be confrontational but since you seem so knowledgeable with your answer, why don't you disprove what he said? I don't see anywhere in your answer in which you did. Why don't you quote parts of the books or link the discussions from this site here that reference or directly answer what's in quotes? You really didn't say anything besides the typical internet answer of "do your own research" (I'm paraphrasing). Now, since you want to know about me, I've been a member here since 2014, I've read the books by Nelson, Comite, Shippen and Fryer, Morgentaler, Gordon (who I was a patient of), Lyfe, Crisler, Scally, and Purser. I'm a patient of Olivieri, who comes highly regarded, even by Nelson, I'm also a member of several forums, Reddit subgroups, etc and I've been on TRT for over 4 years with zero sides and I've even run a few cycles with no problem. I've seen the Youtube videos, podcasts, etc. I'm not saying I'm an expert here, I'm forever learning and always asking questions, but even with all that I've read and experienced, I find what was said in quotes to be something that has me thinking, even a little concerned.</p><p></p><p>Now, enough about me, let's talk about the quotes since you say that this is all so easily disproven:</p><p><span style="color: #00000A">"It's absolutely true. You lose both LH and GnRH (<strong>this is true since the body's feedback loop shuts this down) </strong>. LH receptors exist all over the body <strong>(this is true and is the reason why some people report a better sense of 'wellbeing when hCG is added to their protocol)</strong>. Your body loses control of its hormones and to lower them during sickness and sleep <strong>(this is true since a person on TRT can now manipulate their T level with frequency and amount of injections)</strong>. You completely lose and destroy diurnal rythym (the natural state of low/high testosterone during night/day) which allows androgen receptors to resensitize overnight (<strong>this is true on injections, less true on Androgel since Androgel is applied in the morning and causes a spike a couple of hours later and lowers throughout the day. That is why you apply Androgel everyday)</strong>. You have to sleep with your T levels raging as if it was morning <strong>(this is true on injections, which is the most popular method. If you inject once a week, you spike 48 hours after injection and lower throughout the week. If you inject EOD, E3.5 days or everyday, you lower less and stay at your level so there is really no daily highs and lows with injections) </strong>. The body normally spikes them along with cortisol to "wake you up (<strong>This is true)</strong>," but TRT never gives the body a break (<strong>this is true on injections, again, since there are no daily highs and lows, it's either at one level all the time, or it lowers over the week because of the cypoinate or enanthate ester)</strong>. Since you aren't making your own testosterone anymore, many of the pathways towards testosterone start to "overflow" since they aren't being used anymore.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A">You completely break the natural work of and disrupt your pituitary and hypothalamus <strong>(this is true because of the negative feedback loop) </strong>and they remain in a constant state of strain or disuse."</span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A"></span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A">And for all the glowing reports of life changing benefits from TRT it's a compromise, as with many medicines. Insulin therapy is lifesaving to many diabetics, and they praise it, but it's not as good as natural control, I know because there are many diabetics in my family so pointing out the many glowing reviews or life changing benefits does not answer the question in quotes, it's trying to change the subject or avoiding the discussion. Also, there are people who have problems on TRT. Remember, there are people who have to take AI's or give blood to battle polycythemia, etc. There aren't too many people in their 20's with naturally high testosterone that need to constantly give blood or use AI's.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A"></span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A">Let me give one example. If I'm on T cypionate and I inject every 3.5 days, or even EOD or every day, which is what's recommended by many on this board, my T levels will always stay at whatever level you're at. It won't go lower in the morning, it'll be a straight line on a chart. Now, that's not how the body is naturally is it? It's higher in the morning and lower in the afternoon. Another example, there are people who don't take hCG so now they lose the LH signal (hCG is a LH analog). People have reported a better sense of well being when hCG is added to their protocol. What about FSH? You lose that. You can take hCG to replace LH (and trace amounts of FSH) but are you going to spent all the money and use HMG to replace FSH? I don't know anyone who does.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A"></span></p><p><span style="color: #00000A">I'm not trying to knock TRT, it's provided me great benefits, as it's done for many others, but most of the people I know would rather be natural with a high level, if they could instead of dealing with TRT. Also, I know that TRT is just a compromise, as with most medicines.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Henry, post: 84864, member: 2067"] Not to be confrontational but since you seem so knowledgeable with your answer, why don't you disprove what he said? I don't see anywhere in your answer in which you did. Why don't you quote parts of the books or link the discussions from this site here that reference or directly answer what's in quotes? You really didn't say anything besides the typical internet answer of "do your own research" (I'm paraphrasing). Now, since you want to know about me, I've been a member here since 2014, I've read the books by Nelson, Comite, Shippen and Fryer, Morgentaler, Gordon (who I was a patient of), Lyfe, Crisler, Scally, and Purser. I'm a patient of Olivieri, who comes highly regarded, even by Nelson, I'm also a member of several forums, Reddit subgroups, etc and I've been on TRT for over 4 years with zero sides and I've even run a few cycles with no problem. I've seen the Youtube videos, podcasts, etc. I'm not saying I'm an expert here, I'm forever learning and always asking questions, but even with all that I've read and experienced, I find what was said in quotes to be something that has me thinking, even a little concerned. Now, enough about me, let's talk about the quotes since you say that this is all so easily disproven: [COLOR=#00000A][FONT=Helvetica]"It's absolutely true. You lose both LH and GnRH ([/FONT][B]this is true since the body's feedback loop shuts this down) [/B][FONT=Helvetica]. LH receptors exist all over the body [/FONT][B][FONT=Helvetica](this is true and is the reason why some people report a better sense of 'wellbeing when hCG is added to their protocol)[/FONT][/B][FONT=Helvetica]. Your body loses control of its hormones and to lower them during sickness and sleep [/FONT][B](this is true since a person on TRT can now manipulate their T level with frequency and amount of injections)[/B][FONT=Helvetica]. You completely lose and destroy diurnal rythym (the natural state of low/high testosterone during night/day) which allows androgen receptors to resensitize overnight ([/FONT][B][FONT=Helvetica]this is true on injections, less true on Androgel since Androgel is applied in the morning and causes a spike a couple of hours later and lowers throughout the day. That is why you apply Androgel everyday)[/FONT][/B][FONT=Helvetica]. You have to sleep with your T levels raging as if it was morning [/FONT][B](this is true on injections, which is the most popular method. If you inject once a week, you spike 48 hours after injection and lower throughout the week. If you inject EOD, E3.5 days or everyday, you lower less and stay at your level so there is really no daily highs and lows with injections) [/B][FONT=Helvetica]. The body normally spikes them along with cortisol to "wake you up ([/FONT][B]This is true)[/B][FONT=Helvetica]," but TRT never gives the body a break ([/FONT][B][FONT=Helvetica]this is true on injections, again, since there are no daily highs and lows, it's either at one level all the time, or it lowers over the week because of the cypoinate or enanthate ester)[/FONT][/B][FONT=Helvetica]. Since you aren't making your own testosterone anymore, many of the pathways towards testosterone start to "overflow" since they aren't being used anymore.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#00000A][FONT=Helvetica]You completely break the natural work of and disrupt your pituitary and hypothalamus [/FONT][B][FONT=Helvetica](this is true because of the negative feedback loop) [/FONT][/B][FONT=Helvetica]and they remain in a constant state of strain or disuse."[/FONT] [FONT=Helvetica]And for all the glowing reports of life changing benefits from TRT it's a compromise, as with many medicines. Insulin therapy is lifesaving to many diabetics, and they praise it, but it's not as good as natural control, I know because there are many diabetics in my family so pointing out the many glowing reviews or life changing benefits does not answer the question in quotes, it's trying to change the subject or avoiding the discussion. Also, there are people who have problems on TRT. Remember, there are people who have to take AI's or give blood to battle polycythemia, etc. There aren't too many people in their 20's with naturally high testosterone that need to constantly give blood or use AI's.[/FONT] [FONT=Helvetica]Let me give one example. If I'm on T cypionate and I inject every 3.5 days, or even EOD or every day, which is what's recommended by many on this board, my T levels will always stay at whatever level you're at. It won't go lower in the morning, it'll be a straight line on a chart. Now, that's not how the body is naturally is it? It's higher in the morning and lower in the afternoon. Another example, there are people who don't take hCG so now they lose the LH signal (hCG is a LH analog). People have reported a better sense of well being when hCG is added to their protocol. What about FSH? You lose that. You can take hCG to replace LH (and trace amounts of FSH) but are you going to spent all the money and use HMG to replace FSH? I don't know anyone who does. I'm not trying to knock TRT, it's provided me great benefits, as it's done for many others, but most of the people I know would rather be natural with a high level, if they could instead of dealing with TRT. Also, I know that TRT is just a compromise, as with most medicines.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
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Does Shutting Down LH with Testosterone Have Negative Effects?
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