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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Dht labs....should i worry?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sides" data-source="post: 150654" data-attributes="member: 31749"><p>I wouldn't try to lower DHT by taking saw palmetto, Finasteride or anything similar, because you may end up just wrecking your libido and causing gynecomastia and more heart and health problems for yourself. DHT is nothing to play around with lightly.</p><p></p><p>I messed up my natural DHT by taking Proviron for too long, starting in November of 2017, trying to raise my sperm count to get my wife pregnant (along with HCG and HMG and later FSH.) Everything went well with that, initially I had good libido, and my wife is now 15 weeks pregnant after our successful IVF implant in March.</p><p></p><p>The problem for me started in February and March of 2019 when I started having brain fog and poor libido, despite still taking the Proviron. DHT has higher affinity at the androgen receptor than testosterone, and it also has higher affinity at the estrogen receptor than estrogen. Thus if levels are too high it blocks both the positive benefits and negative effects of estrogen. Estrogen has beneficial cognitive effects in the brain and with libido, as well as important beneficial effects on lipids, heart health, tendons, etc as Nelson as been telling us for years. I realized that somehow things had changed and DHT was now blocking the positive effects as well as the negative effects of estrogen.</p><p></p><p>This apparently does happen in the bodybuilding community, and a former pro-bodybuilder described his take on my problem this way:</p><p></p><p>"DHT is a VERY active test analogue, it will occupy E receptors competitively and trigger T receptors as well as activate its own.</p><p></p><p>That being said, DHT will UP-REGULATE (Yes increase) the count AND the affinity of the DHT receptors when used in a high dosage and/or over prolonged periods of time where it will not be able to satisfy the "POSITIVE" DHT effects by regular Testosterone conversion, even at higher doses, this will let the aromatization into E show its NASTY side effects since even if controlled... has no DHT competing to keep it in check.</p><p></p><p>The bad news is that by exogenously supplying a constant value DHT signal you have unregulated your DHT receptors. and those are ones that up regulate quickly. Therefore the conversion from T is barely recognized. The 5 Alpha Reductase does not receive a feedback response."</p><p></p><p>I tried to stop taking the Proviron, and immediately had withdrawal symptoms and quickly developed gynecomastia, despite taking high doses (20-60mg per day) of Nolvadex. Now I have significant libido problems and gynecomastia because my body doesn't seem to recognize it's own endogenous DHT anymore. My DHT LC/MS/MS is 76 (normal on a range from 16-79ng/Dl, SHBG 26, free test and sensitive E2 both very high), but my gyno continues to grow, I have little libido, and my LDL cholesterol is very high, whether because of the imbalance of DHT/E2 or because of the Nolvadex, despite the fact that I am on a TRT dose of test (100mg twice per week) that never gave me problems before.</p><p></p><p>At this point I don't know what to do other than drop the TRT dose, but of course that gives me less androgens (T and DHT) as well as less estrogen, or go back on the Proviron, and I don't know whether that will make the gyno and lipids better or worse. And trying to explain this to any endocrinologist or doctor has been fruitless. I am desperately looking for help in the Boston area if anyone knows someone good.</p><p></p><p>Don't go messing with your DHT without consulting a good endocrinologist or other specialist. I wish that I never started taking Proviron myself; it helped me in the short run but in the long run it only caused me problems.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sides, post: 150654, member: 31749"] I wouldn't try to lower DHT by taking saw palmetto, Finasteride or anything similar, because you may end up just wrecking your libido and causing gynecomastia and more heart and health problems for yourself. DHT is nothing to play around with lightly. I messed up my natural DHT by taking Proviron for too long, starting in November of 2017, trying to raise my sperm count to get my wife pregnant (along with HCG and HMG and later FSH.) Everything went well with that, initially I had good libido, and my wife is now 15 weeks pregnant after our successful IVF implant in March. The problem for me started in February and March of 2019 when I started having brain fog and poor libido, despite still taking the Proviron. DHT has higher affinity at the androgen receptor than testosterone, and it also has higher affinity at the estrogen receptor than estrogen. Thus if levels are too high it blocks both the positive benefits and negative effects of estrogen. Estrogen has beneficial cognitive effects in the brain and with libido, as well as important beneficial effects on lipids, heart health, tendons, etc as Nelson as been telling us for years. I realized that somehow things had changed and DHT was now blocking the positive effects as well as the negative effects of estrogen. This apparently does happen in the bodybuilding community, and a former pro-bodybuilder described his take on my problem this way: "DHT is a VERY active test analogue, it will occupy E receptors competitively and trigger T receptors as well as activate its own. That being said, DHT will UP-REGULATE (Yes increase) the count AND the affinity of the DHT receptors when used in a high dosage and/or over prolonged periods of time where it will not be able to satisfy the "POSITIVE" DHT effects by regular Testosterone conversion, even at higher doses, this will let the aromatization into E show its NASTY side effects since even if controlled... has no DHT competing to keep it in check. The bad news is that by exogenously supplying a constant value DHT signal you have unregulated your DHT receptors. and those are ones that up regulate quickly. Therefore the conversion from T is barely recognized. The 5 Alpha Reductase does not receive a feedback response." I tried to stop taking the Proviron, and immediately had withdrawal symptoms and quickly developed gynecomastia, despite taking high doses (20-60mg per day) of Nolvadex. Now I have significant libido problems and gynecomastia because my body doesn't seem to recognize it's own endogenous DHT anymore. My DHT LC/MS/MS is 76 (normal on a range from 16-79ng/Dl, SHBG 26, free test and sensitive E2 both very high), but my gyno continues to grow, I have little libido, and my LDL cholesterol is very high, whether because of the imbalance of DHT/E2 or because of the Nolvadex, despite the fact that I am on a TRT dose of test (100mg twice per week) that never gave me problems before. At this point I don't know what to do other than drop the TRT dose, but of course that gives me less androgens (T and DHT) as well as less estrogen, or go back on the Proviron, and I don't know whether that will make the gyno and lipids better or worse. And trying to explain this to any endocrinologist or doctor has been fruitless. I am desperately looking for help in the Boston area if anyone knows someone good. Don't go messing with your DHT without consulting a good endocrinologist or other specialist. I wish that I never started taking Proviron myself; it helped me in the short run but in the long run it only caused me problems. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Dht labs....should i worry?
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