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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
DHT Gel Effectively Treats Gynecomastia in HIV + Men
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<blockquote data-quote="Jerajera" data-source="post: 222656" data-attributes="member: 40995"><p>No worries <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>So unless I misunderstood what you said, I just want to clarify that DHT is not produced on its own in your body, whether in your testicles or adrenals. DHT, just like Estradiol, is entirely converted from Testosterone through an enzyme named 5-alpha reductase, equivalent to the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting Testosterone to Estradiol.</p><p></p><p>Nothing is going to shut down your production of DHT because it's not "produced" per say. The reason the cream applied to the scrotum results in such high DHT levels is that there's a very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase enzymes located there, so a disproportionate amount of the Testosterone is going to be converted to DHT, relative to other parts of your body or administration routes (nasal, injections, oral, etc...).</p><p></p><p>The other thing is that very high DHT levels might not impact your Serum Estradiol levels on a blood test because DHT doesn't prevent the conversion of T to E, unlike for example an actual aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex (Anastrozole) or Exemestane (Aromasin).</p><p>DHT "competes" (simplification, the article I linked in my previous post goes into more detail) with Estrogen at the receptor level, effectively acting in some ways as an Estrogen blocker, such that you could very well suffer from low E2 symptoms despite having very high E2 levels on a blood test if your DHT is high enough.</p><p></p><p>Bodybuilders have known this for a long time and often use a DHT-derivative such as Primobolan or Masteron to act as a form of AI and keep a dryer look while preventing side effects such as bloating, gyno and hypertension.</p><p></p><p>Hot flashes are typically a sign of low E2, which is why post-menopausal women, whose Estrogen levels basically drop to 0, notoriously get them.</p><p>Given that you're not only disproportionately converting to DHT from the scrotal application of the cream, but also adding exogenous pure DHT with the DHT cream, I think it's at least worth exploring the hypothesis that your DHT levels could be so high that even though your E2 could look fine (or even high) on a lab result, you would suffer from low E2 symptoms.</p><p></p><p>There's no way to truly verify this, but if you got your DHT tested and it came back at 5 times the top of the range, it would be reasonable to bring it down a bit and see if that helps.</p><p></p><p>The reason I'm so excited about this DHT cream is that one of the biggest problem for a large number of men taking exogenous T, is that we don't get three separate knobs to control levels of T, E2, and DHT. Instead DHT and E2 are converted from Testosterone at rates that are for the most part genetically predetermined, with some nurture factors in there (mostly how fat you are, which to some degree increases aromatization).</p><p></p><p>It's like having an equalizer with Bass Trebble and Middle where every time you move the Bass up, Trebble and Middle also move up in a completely predetermined way. Unless those rates are somehow optimally correlated, you're going to have a really hard time getting the sound you want, it's basically going to be impossible.</p><p></p><p>But because DHT is a natural Estrogen antagonist and we now have the ability to supplement it independently from Testosterone conversion, we have a lot more separate control on those three knobs (T, E2, DHT).</p><p></p><p>That's why to me something like a really stable base of injected Test (Test C daily injections, for ex) with some DHT cream as an adjustable add-on to modulate E2, sounds like a good experiment to run. Start with just injections and see how you feel, then add a bit of DHT cream. Do you feel better? Ok, add a little more. Better? Keep going until you start getting low E2 sides, step back a bit and you could potentially find yourself a really nice sweet spot</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jerajera, post: 222656, member: 40995"] No worries :) So unless I misunderstood what you said, I just want to clarify that DHT is not produced on its own in your body, whether in your testicles or adrenals. DHT, just like Estradiol, is entirely converted from Testosterone through an enzyme named 5-alpha reductase, equivalent to the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting Testosterone to Estradiol. Nothing is going to shut down your production of DHT because it's not "produced" per say. The reason the cream applied to the scrotum results in such high DHT levels is that there's a very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase enzymes located there, so a disproportionate amount of the Testosterone is going to be converted to DHT, relative to other parts of your body or administration routes (nasal, injections, oral, etc...). The other thing is that very high DHT levels might not impact your Serum Estradiol levels on a blood test because DHT doesn't prevent the conversion of T to E, unlike for example an actual aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex (Anastrozole) or Exemestane (Aromasin). DHT "competes" (simplification, the article I linked in my previous post goes into more detail) with Estrogen at the receptor level, effectively acting in some ways as an Estrogen blocker, such that you could very well suffer from low E2 symptoms despite having very high E2 levels on a blood test if your DHT is high enough. Bodybuilders have known this for a long time and often use a DHT-derivative such as Primobolan or Masteron to act as a form of AI and keep a dryer look while preventing side effects such as bloating, gyno and hypertension. Hot flashes are typically a sign of low E2, which is why post-menopausal women, whose Estrogen levels basically drop to 0, notoriously get them. Given that you're not only disproportionately converting to DHT from the scrotal application of the cream, but also adding exogenous pure DHT with the DHT cream, I think it's at least worth exploring the hypothesis that your DHT levels could be so high that even though your E2 could look fine (or even high) on a lab result, you would suffer from low E2 symptoms. There's no way to truly verify this, but if you got your DHT tested and it came back at 5 times the top of the range, it would be reasonable to bring it down a bit and see if that helps. The reason I'm so excited about this DHT cream is that one of the biggest problem for a large number of men taking exogenous T, is that we don't get three separate knobs to control levels of T, E2, and DHT. Instead DHT and E2 are converted from Testosterone at rates that are for the most part genetically predetermined, with some nurture factors in there (mostly how fat you are, which to some degree increases aromatization). It's like having an equalizer with Bass Trebble and Middle where every time you move the Bass up, Trebble and Middle also move up in a completely predetermined way. Unless those rates are somehow optimally correlated, you're going to have a really hard time getting the sound you want, it's basically going to be impossible. But because DHT is a natural Estrogen antagonist and we now have the ability to supplement it independently from Testosterone conversion, we have a lot more separate control on those three knobs (T, E2, DHT). That's why to me something like a really stable base of injected Test (Test C daily injections, for ex) with some DHT cream as an adjustable add-on to modulate E2, sounds like a good experiment to run. Start with just injections and see how you feel, then add a bit of DHT cream. Do you feel better? Ok, add a little more. Better? Keep going until you start getting low E2 sides, step back a bit and you could potentially find yourself a really nice sweet spot [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
DHT Gel Effectively Treats Gynecomastia in HIV + Men
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