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Clinical Use of Anabolics and Hormones
Clinical Use of Anabolics and Hormones
Deca (nandrolone) for joint pain
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<blockquote data-quote="Pacman" data-source="post: 235697" data-attributes="member: 2450"><p>I doubt that TRT <em>itself</em> caused the joint pain, even with crashed E levels (unless you kept your E levels low for an extended period of time). </p><p></p><p>Even people who go on cycles and report joint pain, it's a lot more related to HOW they are training rather than what they are taking (although what they are taking can enable to train more intensely than otherwise, but you get my point, I am saying it doesn't typically directly cause joint pain).</p><p></p><p>In my observation of joint pain in myself and others (assuming it is not caused by some inherent condition), is typically due to (mostly):</p><p></p><p>1) Intensity way too high</p><p>2) Poor form while lifting (could be caused by #1)</p><p>3) Under recovery </p><p></p><p>The above 3 points are a whole separate huge discussion by themselves, but if I could summarize it in a few distinct <em>oversimplified</em> (but practical + applicable) points, here goes:</p><p></p><p>1) <strong>Go full ROM </strong>as much as you can <em><strong><u>tolerate</u></strong></em> (i.e. if you lose form or control and/or experience acute joint pain during the exercise past a certain ROM, don't go past that ROM. No need to squat past 90 if you can't handle it, no matter what the gym bros say). Not only is this easier on the joints themselves (because going full ROM under control basically guarantees you that it isn't too heavy of a weight), but there is major benefit to muscle development from weighted stretches (<a href="https://youtu.be/pmb3ye_MLTk" target="_blank">here</a> is an amazing video on that topic).</p><p></p><p>Tolerance is the name of the game here. We are all built different so do not assume that full ROM is always the best option. It's just the best <em>default</em> option as far as joint health and safety goes (to the point you can tolerate it).</p><p></p><p>2) <strong>Control those eccentrics.</strong> Whatever speed you concentrically load the weight, as a general rule of thumb if your main priority is joint health and safety, the eccentric portion should be at least 50% slower. So if lat pulldowns are 1-1.5 seconds down (concentric) aim for 2-3 seconds up (eccentric).</p><p></p><p>As far as injury prevention goes, slow controlled eccentrics will greatly reduce injury occurrence.</p><p></p><p>Slow eccentrics induce a nice amount of muscle damage as well which contribute to hypertrophy. Although the exact degree it does is a topic of discussion, but for me personally I find that when I focus on muscle damage over a meso cycle it greatly increases muscle size over meso cycles in which I do not focus on that.</p><p></p><p>Note: "eccentrics" = the movement you resist that would happen if you allowed gravity to work by itself. (On a squat that is the way down, on a lat pulldown that's the way up...)</p><p></p><p>3) <strong>Recovery. </strong>This one's a little harder to define, and it really depends on how you feel and what your program is, but Dr. Mike from RP has several good videos on this.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This could definitely happen, moreso on higher doses though.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's effective for joint pain. But it made me feel very depressed. I actually wrote about my experience on it <a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/does-nandrolone-contribute-to-or-cause-depression.25878/" target="_blank">here</a>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pacman, post: 235697, member: 2450"] I doubt that TRT [I]itself[/I] caused the joint pain, even with crashed E levels (unless you kept your E levels low for an extended period of time). Even people who go on cycles and report joint pain, it's a lot more related to HOW they are training rather than what they are taking (although what they are taking can enable to train more intensely than otherwise, but you get my point, I am saying it doesn't typically directly cause joint pain). In my observation of joint pain in myself and others (assuming it is not caused by some inherent condition), is typically due to (mostly): 1) Intensity way too high 2) Poor form while lifting (could be caused by #1) 3) Under recovery The above 3 points are a whole separate huge discussion by themselves, but if I could summarize it in a few distinct [I]oversimplified[/I] (but practical + applicable) points, here goes: 1) [B]Go full ROM [/B]as much as you can [I][B][U]tolerate[/U][/B][/I] (i.e. if you lose form or control and/or experience acute joint pain during the exercise past a certain ROM, don't go past that ROM. No need to squat past 90 if you can't handle it, no matter what the gym bros say). Not only is this easier on the joints themselves (because going full ROM under control basically guarantees you that it isn't too heavy of a weight), but there is major benefit to muscle development from weighted stretches ([URL='https://youtu.be/pmb3ye_MLTk']here[/URL] is an amazing video on that topic). Tolerance is the name of the game here. We are all built different so do not assume that full ROM is always the best option. It's just the best [I]default[/I] option as far as joint health and safety goes (to the point you can tolerate it). 2) [B]Control those eccentrics.[/B] Whatever speed you concentrically load the weight, as a general rule of thumb if your main priority is joint health and safety, the eccentric portion should be at least 50% slower. So if lat pulldowns are 1-1.5 seconds down (concentric) aim for 2-3 seconds up (eccentric). As far as injury prevention goes, slow controlled eccentrics will greatly reduce injury occurrence. Slow eccentrics induce a nice amount of muscle damage as well which contribute to hypertrophy. Although the exact degree it does is a topic of discussion, but for me personally I find that when I focus on muscle damage over a meso cycle it greatly increases muscle size over meso cycles in which I do not focus on that. Note: "eccentrics" = the movement you resist that would happen if you allowed gravity to work by itself. (On a squat that is the way down, on a lat pulldown that's the way up...) 3) [B]Recovery. [/B]This one's a little harder to define, and it really depends on how you feel and what your program is, but Dr. Mike from RP has several good videos on this. This could definitely happen, moreso on higher doses though. It's effective for joint pain. But it made me feel very depressed. I actually wrote about my experience on it [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/does-nandrolone-contribute-to-or-cause-depression.25878/']here[/URL]. [/QUOTE]
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Clinical Use of Anabolics and Hormones
Clinical Use of Anabolics and Hormones
Deca (nandrolone) for joint pain
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