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Thyroid, Pregnenolone, Progesterone, DHEA, etc
Thyroid, DHEA, Pregnenolone, Progesterone, etc
Could the ratio of progesterone to estradiol affect water retention in men on TRT?
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<blockquote data-quote="xqfq" data-source="post: 153224" data-attributes="member: 38167"><p>I've been doing reading on water retention on TRT and I'd like to discuss a hypothetical I haven't seen floated: that the <em>ratio</em> of progesterone to estradiol could play a role.</p><p></p><p>This is a good post by Nelson: <a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/water-retention-caused-by-testosterone-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-estradiol.8546/" target="_blank">"Water Retention Caused by Testosterone May Have Nothing to Do with Estradiol"</a>. The theory of that post is that testosterone itself inhibits the enzyme 11b-HSD2, which then causes increased water retention. While I suspect this could play a role in some men's water retention on TRT, some guys experience water retention while having relatively low free testosterone levels. I've read reports of guys getting water retention with <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/bptl9k/trt_causing_me_to_retain_water/enxtq39/" target="_blank">~400 total T and E2 of 16</a>.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]7820[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Women experience bloating and water retention during their cycle, but only during the period when the ratio between progesterone and estrogen is at its lowest. Once progesterone rises relative to estrogen, water retention is shed. See this paper for some details: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849969/" target="_blank">Sex Hormone Effects on Body Fluid Regulation</a></p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/anabolic-steroids-and-trt-decrease-shbg-dhea-pregnenolone-and-progesterone-in-men.3990/" target="_blank">TRT without HCG reduces progesterone levels</a>, and even with HCG <a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/anyone-on-progesterone-how-do-you-feel.9083/" target="_blank">progesterone levels may not be fully restored in all men</a>.</p><p></p><p>The reference range for progesterone levels in men is <a href="http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm" target="_blank">0.1 - 1.2 ng/mL</a>, or 100-1200 pg/mL. The labcorp reference range for E2 LC/MS/MS is 8 - 35.0 pg/mL.</p><p></p><p>I don't have any answers here, but I do wonder if men with higher (free) estradiol numbers require higher progesterone levels to avoid water retention. If a man had undetectable progesterone levels but "in range" estradiol, I think it's plausible he could experience water retention simply because of that.</p><p></p><p>I would love to hear anyone's experiences with their progesterone levels in relation to water retention symptoms!</p><p></p><p>-----</p><p></p><p><em>Please note that the above graphic of a woman's cycle appears to be using two different units (E2 is plotted in pg/mL, progesterone is plotted in ng/mL). When units are adjusted to be the same, a women's progesterone is normally always greater than her estrogen.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="xqfq, post: 153224, member: 38167"] I've been doing reading on water retention on TRT and I'd like to discuss a hypothetical I haven't seen floated: that the [I]ratio[/I] of progesterone to estradiol could play a role. This is a good post by Nelson: [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/water-retention-caused-by-testosterone-may-have-nothing-to-do-with-estradiol.8546/']"Water Retention Caused by Testosterone May Have Nothing to Do with Estradiol"[/URL]. The theory of that post is that testosterone itself inhibits the enzyme 11b-HSD2, which then causes increased water retention. While I suspect this could play a role in some men's water retention on TRT, some guys experience water retention while having relatively low free testosterone levels. I've read reports of guys getting water retention with [URL='https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/bptl9k/trt_causing_me_to_retain_water/enxtq39/']~400 total T and E2 of 16[/URL]. [ATTACH=full]7820[/ATTACH] Women experience bloating and water retention during their cycle, but only during the period when the ratio between progesterone and estrogen is at its lowest. Once progesterone rises relative to estrogen, water retention is shed. See this paper for some details: [URL='https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849969/']Sex Hormone Effects on Body Fluid Regulation[/URL] [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/anabolic-steroids-and-trt-decrease-shbg-dhea-pregnenolone-and-progesterone-in-men.3990/']TRT without HCG reduces progesterone levels[/URL], and even with HCG [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/anyone-on-progesterone-how-do-you-feel.9083/']progesterone levels may not be fully restored in all men[/URL]. The reference range for progesterone levels in men is [URL='http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm']0.1 - 1.2 ng/mL[/URL], or 100-1200 pg/mL. The labcorp reference range for E2 LC/MS/MS is 8 - 35.0 pg/mL. I don't have any answers here, but I do wonder if men with higher (free) estradiol numbers require higher progesterone levels to avoid water retention. If a man had undetectable progesterone levels but "in range" estradiol, I think it's plausible he could experience water retention simply because of that. I would love to hear anyone's experiences with their progesterone levels in relation to water retention symptoms! ----- [I]Please note that the above graphic of a woman's cycle appears to be using two different units (E2 is plotted in pg/mL, progesterone is plotted in ng/mL). When units are adjusted to be the same, a women's progesterone is normally always greater than her estrogen.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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Thyroid, Pregnenolone, Progesterone, DHEA, etc
Thyroid, DHEA, Pregnenolone, Progesterone, etc
Could the ratio of progesterone to estradiol affect water retention in men on TRT?
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