ExcelMale
Menu
Home
What's new
Latest activity
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Videos
Lab Tests
Doctor Finder
Buy Books
About Us
Men’s Health Coaching
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More options
Contact us
Close Menu
Forums
Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Anyone Successfully Lower HCT by Reducing T Dose?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Cataceous" data-source="post: 176669" data-attributes="member: 38109"><p>I've floated the general idea that some of the problematic aspects of TRT could be more closely tied to average testosterone levels, while more of the benefits may relate to peak levels. It's pure speculation, but I'd like to interest guys in testing the idea with something easily quantified, such as hemoglobin and hematocrit.</p><p></p><p>The way it works is you start with frequent injections of a longer ester, such as cypionate. This should result in pretty stable serum levels. At this baseline H&H are measured, along with testosterone and SHBG. The next step is to experiment with daily doses of propionate, or a combination of propionate and a longer ester. The doses are adjusted so the daily testosterone peaks are similar to what was achieved with the longer ester alone, but the average is lower. For example, if TT of 800 ng/dL was achieved on cypionate alone, then with the ester combination one might have a peak TT of 800 ng/dL, an average of 650 ng/dL, and a daily trough of 500 ng/dL. Will H&H go down on the lower average dose without a return of low-T symptoms?</p><p></p><p>I've run both protocols myself, with the data trending the opposite of what is hoped for. But there are confounding factors in my case, such as variations in training intensity.</p><p></p><p>Edit: Nelson <a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/cant-control-hematocrit-even-on-low-dose.17469/post-176845" target="_blank">posted an article</a> on sleep apnea and polycythemia. The first sentence says "Polycythemia (erythrocytosis) is a known side effect of testosterone (T) replacement therapy (TRT) and appears to correlate with maximum T levels." If true, it contradicts my premise with respect to this particular side effect. So far I haven't found the full article text to see if there's a strong basis for the statement.</p><p></p><p>Edit2: <a href="https://europepmc.org/article/MED/9233903" target="_blank">This study</a> is more supportive of my suggestions. It compares testosterone undecanoate, testosterone enanthate, and pellets. If hematocrit were more dependent on peak values then you might think that enanthate would fair the worst. However, the pellets gave the highest values, and the authors "conclude that, T..., stimulates erythropoiesis in a dose dependent manner."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cataceous, post: 176669, member: 38109"] I've floated the general idea that some of the problematic aspects of TRT could be more closely tied to average testosterone levels, while more of the benefits may relate to peak levels. It's pure speculation, but I'd like to interest guys in testing the idea with something easily quantified, such as hemoglobin and hematocrit. The way it works is you start with frequent injections of a longer ester, such as cypionate. This should result in pretty stable serum levels. At this baseline H&H are measured, along with testosterone and SHBG. The next step is to experiment with daily doses of propionate, or a combination of propionate and a longer ester. The doses are adjusted so the daily testosterone peaks are similar to what was achieved with the longer ester alone, but the average is lower. For example, if TT of 800 ng/dL was achieved on cypionate alone, then with the ester combination one might have a peak TT of 800 ng/dL, an average of 650 ng/dL, and a daily trough of 500 ng/dL. Will H&H go down on the lower average dose without a return of low-T symptoms? I've run both protocols myself, with the data trending the opposite of what is hoped for. But there are confounding factors in my case, such as variations in training intensity. Edit: Nelson [URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/cant-control-hematocrit-even-on-low-dose.17469/post-176845']posted an article[/URL] on sleep apnea and polycythemia. The first sentence says "Polycythemia (erythrocytosis) is a known side effect of testosterone (T) replacement therapy (TRT) and appears to correlate with maximum T levels." If true, it contradicts my premise with respect to this particular side effect. So far I haven't found the full article text to see if there's a strong basis for the statement. Edit2: [URL='https://europepmc.org/article/MED/9233903']This study[/URL] is more supportive of my suggestions. It compares testosterone undecanoate, testosterone enanthate, and pellets. If hematocrit were more dependent on peak values then you might think that enanthate would fair the worst. However, the pellets gave the highest values, and the authors "conclude that, T..., stimulates erythropoiesis in a dose dependent manner." [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Share this page
Facebook
Twitter
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Sponsors
Forums
Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Anyone Successfully Lower HCT by Reducing T Dose?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top